Not So Small
Running a small business is anything but small. In each episode our host, Sam Bauman, asks small business owners about their challenges, triumphs, and the passion that keeps them going. Through this, Not So Small seeks to spotlight and strengthen the small businesses that are dedicated to their community and care about more than the bottom line.
Not So Small
S.E.E. Psychotherapy: Sarah Evert
In this episode of Not So Small, we sit down with Sarah Evert, a clinical social worker and the owner of S.E.E. Psychotherapy. Sarah specializes in working with clients struggling with perfectionism, and she shares how her own search for fulfillment and autonomy led her to build a private practice that challenges traditional therapy norms.
Sarah talks about the power of community in private practice, and how social media has transformed the way she connects with both clients and fellow therapists. She also reflects on the importance of making therapy feel accessible and the lessons she’s learned from setbacks along the way. Whether you're an entrepreneur, a mental health professional, or someone navigating perfectionism, this conversation offers insights into building a business that truly aligns with your values.
Guest Info
Community Shoutout
Other Links:
Ikigai: The Japanese Secret to a Joyful Life
Host & Show Info
- Host Name: Sam Bauman (she/her)
- About the Host: Sam is the President of Mellowlark Labs, a Twin Cities-based small business consulting agency. She has a masters degree in counseling psychology, a field she worked in for several years before applying her skills in business, and is certified in Organization Development.
Podcast Website
Sound Editing By: Adam Rondeau
Podcast Art By: Andy Bauman (website)
Hey. Hey. Welcome back. It's not so Small. Okay, that was bad. Welcome back to not so Small, the podcast where we talk to local business owners and ask them the big questions. We know that running a small business is a lot of work, and we're excited to be. What are we excited to be doing? Hey, everyone, and welcome to not so Small, the podcast where we sit down with community business owners. Why do I keep saying community business owners? I really just need a better. I just need to write something for that. Hey, and welcome back to not so Small, the podcast where we talk with small business owners in our community about what got them started and what keeps them going. For this episode, I had the privilege of talking with a friend of mine, Sarah Evert, owner of See Psychotherapy. Sarah is a clinical social worker, and she specializes in working with folks who struggle with perfectionism. I have recorded this preamble about 10 times, and in the interest of learning to not be a perfectionist, we're just gonna let it ride. So here's Sarah, and I hope you enjoy the conversation. So my first question is, what is the main problem that you set out to try to solve when you started your business, and is that still the problem that you see as at the core of things for you?
Sarah Evert:I love this question. I think the problem I'm solving now is not what I started with. I think the problem initially was feeling sort of stuck in social work positions that weren't creative enough or giving me enough maybe control over things or the ability to make my own schedule. So my problem initially was like, I need something that feels fulfilling and is going to work for me, but also is going to help people. Then it became, holy shit, there's a lot of people who struggle with perfectionism that aren't directly spoken to, particularly in our region of the country. And why is that? Like, why is this not being called out? Because it impacts so many people. And so it's interesting that, like, a business came from actually my own, like, boredom.
Sam Bauman:Yeah. So it sounds like it started as really a problem of your own that you wanted to solve, and now it's becoming a problem of other people's that you want to help solve.
Sarah Evert:Yeah, for sure.
Sam Bauman:That's so cool. And do you feel like you're getting some of the things that you were missing from previous jobs in this new space?
Sarah Evert:Definitely. I think, like many people, I. I think it was six or seven years that I was working for our local county, working with people who really passionate about their work, but it's a 9 to 5 you like, clock in and clock out. You don't have control of who you're working with or when that work starts or stops. Ideas you have to make things more specialized or offer more, like, niche programs. It's just not there. So I think that all of that has become, like, totally in my wheelhouse. And. And I can easily say yes or no to things as it feels right. And that is, like, freedom.
Sam Bauman:It's funny, it really resonates with my experience, too. I started in mental health doing therapy, and really felt a lot of the same things that, you know, not only did I not have that freedom and flexibility that I knew would bring me more satisfaction in my work, but the path to get there was so long, you know, I didn't even. Hadn't even gotten licensed postgraduate school. And so just thinking about how to get the things that I wanted out of the career felt really far away. So I love that you found a way to do that for yourself.
Sarah Evert:Yeah.
Sam Bauman:And you are private pay exclusively. So do you think that has an impact on the way that you're able to do your work or is it for different reasons?
Sarah Evert:I think private pay came in because I saw so many people struggle as clinicians to have to work with insurance companies who say, okay, you have one session to make your diagnostic assessment. That feels icky to me. And then based on your diagnostic assessment, you have so many sessions to, like, fix the problem. It feels very much like your therapist has the answers and you're going to get your problems fixed, which is not how I run things.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Sarah Evert:And then I do think marketing a private pay practice gives you the ability to really hone in on people's struggles and offer something that gives them the opportunity to say, this person has to be my therapist. Like, they get me, and I don't even know who they are. And I don't think we really see that a lot with. In other realms of mental health.
Sam Bauman:Yeah. I love that. It sounds like you're really creating a new kind of culture around therapy and mental health that maybe doesn't exist in a big way right now. That's super cool. My next question for you is, what is one tool, system, or process that has significantly impacted your business? And you can think really broadly and abstractly about how you want to answer that question more specifically.
Sarah Evert:Yeah. I think the most concrete answer is my electronic health record, because it does so much for me that I use simple practice and I can have really great control over all communication that's happening with clients. And it runs all the billing and it just does everything for me so I can focus on the other parts, which is marketing and then the clinical work. But I think the dog got the pumpkin bread off the kitchen counter.
Sam Bauman:Oh, no. Do we need to stop for a minute to go get it?
Sarah Evert:No, just let her go. She's not gonna give it up.
Sam Bauman:Oh, gosh, I'm sorry.
Sarah Evert:Susie's rolling wherever she is. I think. I think the other tool, though, is social media, because 10 years ago, I don't think I would have had the reach or would have been a lot harder or taken a lot longer to find that. And I know people have blogs and people have, like, email lit serves, but holy smokes, Instagram in particular really just helped me get everything out there.
Sam Bauman:So simple practice takes care of a lot of the busy work for you. But social media is something that you've used to build your audience and bring in the work that you're looking to bring in.
Sarah Evert:Yeah. And also networking with local or national therapists, that's something that you can, through the hashtags, just find each other. And especially if you're working with a similar niche of people, there's some opportunities I'm collaborating on right now with, like, they're in Maine or they're in Florida, and it feels fun to be like, oh, shit, we connect through this little square app. And, like, I get you. I get what you're trying to do. Let's build something.
Sam Bauman:Oh, that's so cool. It's funny, you know, this podcast is seeking to build community and connect businesses to each other. And while we have, you know, more of a local focus, it's. That's really cool to hear you say that. There's a way to build that same kind of feeling with people from across the country, because you're connecting over common interests or common skill set.
Sarah Evert:Totally.
Sam Bauman:That's very cool. All right, our third question. You're running your own business. You're pretty much on your own. Is that right? How do you keep yourself motivated? How do you keep yourself pointed in the direction that you want to be pointed in? How do you know that you're pointed in the right direction?
Sarah Evert:Shit, am I pointing in the right direction?
Sam Bauman:I threw you a few softballs to get you started, but now we're digging in.
Sarah Evert:I think what keeps it going is the. I think the local community of therapists who are running private practices tailored to specific groups of people feels like. I mean, I'm thinking particularly, like, about the election and that week where were all holding space for people in different ways and also, like, actively grieving ourselves. I had never had that experience before. Yeah, that just. That parallel processing. We're all experiencing the trauma at the same time, and then it's just magnified in the space. It felt so good to have other people who just get it. Yeah, I think it's great to have community and, like, hyper local community and then point it in the right direction. I mean, people are coming in, people are experiencing the benefits. It's working.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Sarah Evert:But I don't know. I mean, I've taken risks, too. That didn't work. Like offering a group twice. I've tried to offer this group for perfectionists. And, like, if you're trying to run your own thing, you know, like, sometimes you feel like this idea is great and you vet it with trusted colleagues and people, and they're like, yeah, this is. There's, like, opportunity here. And then you just don't get enough people to do it. It's like a weird feeling of, like, this could work, but it didn't work for specific reasons. What are those?
Sam Bauman:So in the face of that kind of disappointment or an outcome you weren't hoping for, how do you kind of move on to the next thing or process that?
Sarah Evert:I mean, it's funny because I was listening to a podcast right after that had happened where I made the decision of this just isn't going to work. And someone was talking about how Apple releases really specific products that are very simple and they don't get outsourced and they stay. Like, there's this. They were talking about this graph that was like desktop, mobile. I can't remember what was on the left side, but it's just like keeping it so simple and leaning into what's actually working that I think I took some pressure off myself to, like, I've only been doing this for a year full time. I don't have to launch something that feels like I can just lean into what I'm already doing well and kind of sit with that. And I think my. My Aries self is like, definitely always looking for the next challenge, but that's not always helpful.
Sam Bauman:Well, our current culture is not doing you any favors in that either. Right? I mean, we hear all the time about hustle culture, and if you imagine an entrepreneur, a person running their own business, you sort of associate that with this perpetual drive for more for growth. And it sounds like the thing that kind of helped you through that disappointment was reminding yourself that you don't have to ascribe to that path. Yeah, that's so cool. And like you said, the work is speaking for itself. You are helping people. You're seeing the impact that you're having, and that's enough to keep you going.
Sarah Evert:Yeah, I think the other trend that I'm trying to pay attention to is that I'm getting less and less referrals from just people cold calling who've seen something on Instagram or saw the website. And it's more of like, hey, I know this person. You worked with them last year. I want to come in. And that's like a totally different. For me, it's a totally different feeling than. I mean, of course you want your content to resonate with people, but it feels great to have referrals come in that way.
Sam Bauman:Yeah, yeah. It means people are talking about you. It's so exciting. We talked about this a little bit with the groups, so if there's nothing else that you want to share, that's fine. But I'm interested in hearing you talk about a time that you took a big risk with your business and what you learned from that experience.
Sarah Evert:I think the biggest risk was deciding from day one that I'm not gonna panel with insurance. Like, I'm not gonna get credentialed because that's a steady source of referrals. There's a lot of stability in going that route. Like, there's a lot of really positive benefits for your clients to do that. If it's, if it works for them, that's probably the biggest risk.
Sam Bauman:And you already kind of said that you feel good about having taken that path because it's allowed you to really better serve the community that you're looking.
Sarah Evert:To serve for sure. And there's so many go arounds of like, if you are not billing under insurance, that does not mean people can't get reimbursed by their insurance for sessions. So it's just about paying attention to loopholes and working with like Mentea is the calculator that helps you plug in what's your insurance and what would out of pocket costs be or what's my reimbursement rate? It's like over 50% of my clients who are. They're not paying the full rate. They are initially, which is deserves to be acknowledged, but they're getting reimbursed 40 to 70% of what the cost is.
Sam Bauman:I'm so glad to hear that because I think that a lot of times people hear private pay and they're just immediately like, that's not available to me. So I love that you're finding ways to try to make it more accessible to people. Yeah, that's so cool. Maybe one day insurance companies will be a little bit more willing to trust the actual providers when it comes to providing care.
Sarah Evert:Yeah, I'm not gonna hold my breath.
Sam Bauman:So my last, bigger question is, if you could give one piece of advice to someone starting a business today, what would it be?
Sarah Evert:Somebody gave this advice to me, and it's been like, the cornerstone of how I make decisions. So I'm going to use what they said. There's this Japanese word called ikai. I'm probably pronouncing it wrong or. No, it's ijikai. And it's a phrase that means what you should do, what gets you up in the morning. Or, like, what gets you up in the morning. And if you are starting a business, consider, is it, do you like doing the work? Are you good at it? Do people in the world need it? And can you make money? Like, is it a service you can make money from? And I think I'm super lucky. My parents always pushed us to, like, work, but don't make it feel like work. Like, get into a job that feels like play or that feels like it's not totally grinding your gears all the time. And I think, like, it's okay to lean into that, to have, like, a further foundation of what you're building and why, because then it doesn't. It doesn't feel like it's a pain to get up and go to the office. It's genuinely like, I get to go to the office and then the people walking down the hallway, like, makes me emotional. But, like, every time they come in or we click onto telehealth, I'm like, yes, this is exactly what I need to be doing. This is exactly who I want to be talking to. Wow, it feels really good.
Sam Bauman:So getting to do this work is what gets you up in the morning for sure. That's so cool. Imagine if everybody could find that place for themselves in the world. I think it would solve a lot of problems. And you're kind of helping people do that through your work, too, which is super cool.
Sarah Evert:Yeah, thanks. Means a lot.
Sam Bauman:What do you want our listeners to know about what you're working on Right. Right now? This is your chance to sort of plug yourself and what you've got going on.
Sarah Evert:Yeah, I think I'm taking a little sabbatical from offering new things. But what I hope to be doing, like, my year goals, which I take a little time to do at the beginning of every December for next year. At the end of next year, I want to be offering something for clinicians who are wanting to break away from their group practices, break away from insurance panels, start their own solo or group private practices. And I got a bunch of tools from finding them in a bunch of different places, and it was hard to. To do that. So I have this idea of, like, something that makes it accessible for people because it is, like, it's just a series of steps.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Sarah Evert:But the steps are, like, in all different places. Like, too many. Too many places.
Sam Bauman:That's awesome.
Sarah Evert:So hopefully something for clinicians.
Sam Bauman:Cool. And you're looking to do that sometime late next year. Is that what you said?
Sarah Evert:I hope so.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Sarah Evert:Yeah.
Sam Bauman:Awesome. My very last question. We're hoping to, like I said, build community, a community of small businesses. So, you know, we've spent today talking about you and all the amazing things that you're doing and what you love about your work. And now I'd love to hear you say a little bit about another business that you love that you want to kind of lift up and speak about.
Sarah Evert:There is a furniture and home goods store on the main street in Robbinsdale, which I think is Broadway, called Golden age design. I like smile so big even thinking about it, because there's such good people in there. They just have such a warm vibe, and they offer these, like, really beautiful curated home goods, furniture pieces. Most of, like, the candles and some of our chairs in here are restored Danish pieces. And they. They're just lovely people and offer something that isn't accessible everywhere. And, yeah, I just think they like, present what they do in such a cool way. And sometimes on their Instagram, they'll show, like, the refinishing process of different pieces or, like, what it looked like when they got it and then how they restored it. It's very cool. It feels very intentional.
Sam Bauman:Awesome. We'll have to check that out. That sounds so cool.
Sarah Evert:Yeah.
Sam Bauman:Any last thoughts that you want to share?
Sarah Evert:I think to encourage people to. If the fit doesn't feel right with your therapist or you can't, like, it's just not feeling like you're working on what you want to be working on. Just a little push to, like, self advocate for yourself. Like, it should. It should feel like you can show up with whatever version you are that day and just unload. And if it doesn't try something different, like, it's okay to switch it up.
Sam Bauman:Love that. Thank you so much for your time today, Sarah.
Sarah Evert:Thank you.
Sam Bauman:It's been really fun talking. That was Sarah Everett, everyone, owner of see Psychotherapy. You can find Sarah on Instagram at S E Psychotherapy or on her website@CPsychotherapy.com if you want to read more about ikigai, the Japanese concept that Sarah mentioned toward the end of our conversation, we'll include some links to information on that as well in the episode notes. And make sure you subscribe to the podcast so that you can be notified when the next episode comes out. Thanks for listening. Bye.
