Not So Small
Running a small business is anything but small. In each episode our host, Sam Bauman, asks small business owners about their challenges, triumphs, and the passion that keeps them going. Through this, Not So Small seeks to spotlight and strengthen the small businesses that are dedicated to their community and care about more than the bottom line.
Not So Small
Fourth Trimester Doc: Dr. Michelle Haggerty
In this episode of Not So Small, host Sam Bauman interviews Dr. Michelle Haggerty, founder of Fourth Trimester Doc, a groundbreaking medical practice providing in-home care for new parents and their babies during the critical postpartum period.
Dr. Haggerty shares how her own experience as a new mother revealed the significant gaps in postpartum care, where she found herself "leaking from every orifice" yet expected to dress and travel to a clinic while her own needs were largely overlooked in favor of the baby's. This personal experience, combined with her frustration at the assembly-line nature of clinical practice, inspired her vision for a different approach: visiting families in their homes, where parents could remain comfortable while receiving comprehensive care for both themselves and their newborns.
As a family physician, Dr. Haggerty offers something unique in the field. While similar services exist elsewhere in the country (provided by pediatricians), her medical training allows her to care for both the baby and the birthing parent. Her practice features direct communication via text message, longer appointments that focus on both physical and mental health, and a relationship that feels more like "extended family" than traditional doctor-patient dynamics.
Dr. Haggerty discusses the challenges physicians face when attempting to start independent practices, noting they're actively discouraged from entrepreneurship during their training. Despite these obstacles, she created her business by taking it one day at a time, connecting with other small business owners, and participating in Goldman Sachs' 10KSB program, a mini-MBA specifically for her business.
Beyond her private practice, Dr. Haggerty has co-founded the Center for Fourth Trimester Care, a nonprofit focused on educating healthcare providers about postpartum care, teaching physicians how to start similar businesses, and advocating for improved fourth trimester support nationwide.
Her vision for the future includes expanding access to this model of care through insurance coverage and partnerships with larger businesses that could offer her services as part of their benefits packages. Throughout the conversation, Dr. Haggerty emphasizes how her current work brings her joy and energy, unlike her previous clinical experience that left her feeling burned out and drained.
Guest Info
Community Shoutout(s)
Other Links
Host & Show Info
- Host Name: Sam Bauman (she/her)
- About the Host: Sam is the President of Mellowlark Labs, a Twin Cities-based small business consulting agency. She has a masters degree in counseling psychology, a field she worked in for several years before applying her skills in business, and is certified in Organization Development.
Podcast Website
Sound Editing By: Adam Rondeau
Podcast Art By: Andy Bauman (website)
Hey, welcome back to not so Small, the podcast where we ask small businesses the big questions. I'm your host, Sam Bauman, and this week we sat down with Michelle Haggerty, owner of Fourth Trimester Doc. Michelle's business model is super unique. She provides in home care for parents and infants and in the fourth trimester. And I was so excited to get to talk to her because she is doing work that I wish I had available to me when I was pregnant and having babies. She is providing such a unique kind of medical care that we just don't see in our country, and it's so exciting to see her finding success in her work. Michelle's Community Spotlight is also somebody who works with a previous not so Small guest, which was really fun to hear. So make sure you listen to the end of our conversation to find out who that is. I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did.
Michelle Haggerty:So, I'm Michelle Haggerty. I am a family physician. I have a private practice called 4th Trimester Doc where I do in home visits for birthing people and their newborns postpartum. So we do everything that's otherwise in the clinic setting but in their home, so we come to them.
Sam Bauman:That's awesome. And I think I remember reading on your website that you're one of the only companies doing in home care of this type.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, there's a couple across the country and actually they're sort of friends of mine, so. Oh, wow. Yeah, we talk regularly, but yeah, and the other ones are pediatricians, actually. So I am, as a family physician, can actually take care of the mom or the birthing person as well. So if there's complications that arise from their side, then I can help them, help support them through that.
Sam Bauman:Amazing.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah. Yeah.
Sam Bauman:So tell me a little bit about the journey to starting this business. You know, what was the problem that you sought to solve and what was it like kind of starting this business that is unlike most out there?
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah. So as a family physician, I was seeing people, we say womb tomb, so were taking care of people who are pregnant and then postpartum and everything in the clinic. And what ended up happening is I ended up having my own kids and realizing what a huge gap there was in this care. It just.
Sam Bauman:It was.
Michelle Haggerty:It felt like I was at home. And I say I was leaking from every orifice. I was crying, my breasts were leaking, I was incontinent, everything. And now I've got to put on pants and go into the clinic. I'm like, why can't Somebody come to me and see, make sure they're taking care of my baby and things. And everyone's so focused on my baby and not on me. And so make sure the baby's gaining weight, make sure the baby doesn't have jaundice, make sure the baby doesn't have any complications coming up. But then what about me? My whole body has been totally transformed and my brain feels like it's on fire. There's just so many things happening. And, you know, what about me? And so, yeah, so I realized in my practice where I was practicing in a clinic setting, I was doing sort of the same thing. I was, you know, really focusing on the baby. And although I wanted to focus on the mother of the birthing person, it just wasn't the same. And it was really hard to do it in a setting where you're seeing people every 15 minutes. And so I just had this vision of this practice that could be in the home. The whole transition sort of started when I had sort of this vision. And then a friend of mine came to me and said, hey, can you. I'm pregnant. Can you come take care of my baby or can you take care of my baby in the clinic? I want you to be my baby's doctor. And I looked at her and I said. And I had to take a step back, and I said, no. And she said, what do you mean? And I said, I don't like who I am in the clinic. I don't like the way I practice medicine. I don't like how I care for people. I feel like I'm a cog in the wheel. I feel like you're just another number, basically. So I just felt like it just was sort of the next person. Next person, next person. I didn't want to care for her that way or her baby that way. And I said, but I've got this vision of this practice where you're in your home, you're in your jammies. I come in, we've got candles lit, we snuggle up on your bed together. We talk about the birth, we talk about how your body's been transformed, we talk about how the baby's doing a check in on the baby, make sure the baby's doing well, make sure you're doing well. And then I leave you be, and you get to stay there and I'll snuggle up with your baby and I leave, and then I'll come back a couple days later and I'll check back in on you. And she said, oh, yes. Hell yes. Absolutely. Sign me up. And so, yeah, so that's where it started. And so she. She was. It was sort of this proof of concept, right? So she paid me up front. I had six months now because she was pregnant. So I had six months to sort of develop, you know, the practice, do the llc, get the attorney, do all the things, contracts, whatever, set it all up. And then were rocking and rolling.
Sam Bauman:Amazing. As somebody who also has kids and has gone through the experience that you described of, okay, I gotta get everybody together and get myself to the doctor's office, and it's not really about me, and yet I've gone through, you know, just as much of a transformative experience as my child. I mean, that's. That's so amazing. I would have absolutely jumped at the opportunity to have that kind of care. Not only not having to leave the house, but the way that you described the relationship that you have to the parent and the child is so unlike any medical experience that I think anybody has, at least in our country.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, completely. And that's. I sort of feel like I become an extended family for them, like a little auntie kind of. Because now they also. Part of my practice is they also can text us directly. So, you know, how many people have their direct texting for their position, Right. And so they can text us, and so I can get a message and I can respond within an hour. And, you know, yeah, this is, you know, I'm concerned about this. I want to see you soon, or, you know, don't worry about that. This is the reason why this is happening and can just really sort of, you know, mitigate their fears of it and just say, it's okay, we're going to, you know, and, you know, there's so many fears and things that come up with newborns and postpartum. We have a lot of scary thoughts. We talk about, you know, oh, what happens if I smack the baby's head on the counter as I'm walking around the corner or walking down the stairs? You know, I'm going to drop the baby. You've never fallen down the stairs, and yet all of a sudden you're afraid of your own stairs in your own house. And it's so common, and it's just something that we don't talk about enough. So I can talk about those fears as they come up and we can say, okay, this is something legitimately to be concerned about or something that we can sort of navigate, or this is something that sounds like, this is a scary thought, and let's process this so that then it doesn't become something that sort of sits with you and becomes something that you ruminate on and becomes sort of toxic. So yeah.
Sam Bauman:So why aren't more people doing this?
Michelle Haggerty:Right? Because as physicians we are taught we can't quite literally in our medical system, we're in our training. You will not be working for yourself, you'll be working for other people. You will be working for health systems, you will be working for clinics, you will always be an employee. You will never be doing this on your own. And in fact, if you try, you're going to fail because it's too expensive. There's no practice insurance. There's all these things that you sort of have to do. You are not meant to run a business. So you don't expect to ever do so. Versus like other, you know, you think about chiropractors and acupuncturists and other, you know, other sort of medical, you know, other medical businesses where they do have some business training, they're taught to, you know, these are some things that you like, how do you buy a building or how do you lease or how do you start an LLC and do the other things to sort of start businesses? We're told, don't even think about it. It's not even a thought that you should ever have, let alone giving us some direction on how to do so. So yeah, it's scary because then now we're like, we can't leave the system. This is a system that we're stuck into. So even if you have a vision of a practice that could be something that's very fulfilling, it's just a sort of pipe dream.
Sam Bauman:So what was the process like for you of that first six months where you were becoming an LLC and figuring out kind of all the business side of things?
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, it was scary for sure. I think there was just a lot of eye opening moments like, oh, wow, I can do this. I'm actually very smart and I can figure this out. And it was just what I told myself is one step in front of the other. Just do one thing each day and it doesn't have to be. Sometimes it's signing a contract, sometimes it's looking up a new resource, sometimes it's finding somebody to connect with and networking something. As long as I was doing something each day, I was always moving forward. And of course there was stuff that came up that, oh, I did that one wrong or like I didn't figure that one out right. But then it always Sort of shifted into what was the right space to be in. So I found that it was sort of failing forward, and I really embraced that towards, you know, as I started just moving through it. So I think it was just, yeah, moving forward and continuing to take those steps and shifting and being flexible with it as it came. And so I had that sort of Runway a bit to be able to do that. And I just figured, just put it out there, try something, see what happens.
Sam Bauman:Clearly you didn't run into any roadblocks that were insurmountable. I mean, here you are, it's working for you, and you're continuing to find success in an audience for what you're offering.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's challenging, for sure. There's ups and downs. And I started in the middle of COVID so there's that. And, yeah, so I think that there's, you know, there's times where I'm like, should I still be doing this or not? But I always come back to just it. I love it so much, and I get so much energy from the work I do. And. Are you familiar with the term ikigai? Yeah. So I 100% feel like I'm in my ikigai. I'm in that space where this just feels like this is what I meant to do.
Sam Bauman:Wow, that's amazing. And from your client's perspective, are there downsides to them? I mean, do you work with insurance? What is that process like of that?
Michelle Haggerty:That is a downside. Yeah, absolutely. So that's the first question we always get asked is, you know, do you take insurance? I will say, in general, the insurance system is not great. It works. People say it's broken. It's not broken. It's working very well for the people it's meant to work well for. And that is insurance companies themselves. The stock, you know, the people that own the stock and, you know, sort of the big healthcare systems and things. What's not working well for is the patients and the individual physicians and other healthcare providers. It's not working well for the people who actually are doing the work and are sort of in it. That being said, it's certainly people, you know, they're paying for having be able to have care. And insurance companies are supposed to be paying for it, and unfortunately, they sort of aren't. And so we do use insurance in a variety of ways. One is we use super bills. So we are able to provide people with sort of a document that says that we provide the services, so they pay us up front. We provide A receipt that says that they got the services and then they submit it to their insurance and they get reimbursed because of what we do is preventative, meaning that they shouldn't have cost sharing or co pays or things like that with it. A lot of people actually do get a decent amount of reimbursement because of it. The problem is they have to pay up front and we don't know what the reimbursement is like. It could be, you know, $10, it could be the full amount. So we have no idea. So that's challenging. We also work with a company that sort of helps us get reimbursement for a few of the insurance the commercial payers. So that's helpful. But we are in the process of working to be in network with a couple of the major commercial payers right now. I will say it is more complicated that I even. I knew it was gonna be complicated, but it's even more complicated than I expected. It's really setting back the business quite a bit even just trying to set that up. And I'm not optimistic about what it's actually gonna look like in the end, but I'm hopeful and I really do want more people to have access to our care without having to pay upfront for it. But I'm sort of like, this is going to be a trial and we're going to see what happens. And I can't go under as a business because I'm trying to do this. So we'll see. It's a work in progress. I've already gotten denied from one company because they said they already have too many people doing what I do. And I said, interesting, because I'm one of the only people in the country, so I don't know understand how that's possible.
Sam Bauman:I know in some health service industries it's a lot harder for individuals to get. What's the word?
Michelle Haggerty:Network Credentialed.
Sam Bauman:To get credentialed. Right. By an insurance company versus like a bigger clinic.
Michelle Haggerty:Right. Because they don't have incentive and. That's. Right. So they don't. They. They sort of need the big hospital systems, but what they don't need the small private practices, so. Right, exactly. And so we end up. We, we can get things like worse contracts. We, they can say, nope, we just don't even want to, you know, credential with you at all. We don't even want to work with you at all. Nope. And there's like, no. There's no way to sort of fight that. Yeah. There's no light. We don't have any, you know, leg up to try to. Try to, you know, sort of force them to do so or encourage them to do so. So it's. Yeah, we've been working on it for six months and I anticipate we'll get another six months before we even are in network. And then it takes another six months, three, six months before we even get paid for the people that we initially get.
Sam Bauman:Oh, my goodness.
Michelle Haggerty:So it's. There's no other business in like the world that runs like this. And it's extremely challenging and really frustrating. And yet all we want to do is be able to provide care for people and, you know, provide the service, which we know is. The thing is we know that it's making a difference. I know we've got higher breastfeeding rates, we've got lower mental health issues postpartum, we've got better recovery, lower emergency department visits. I mean, the babies are gaining weight, better, all these things. There's tons of outcomes that are so much improved. And so it's really benefits them in the long term. But they're not looking long term, they are looking at the short term, where what's their bottom line?
Sam Bauman:I want to talk a little bit more about the culture of medicine. So you talked about in your training how you are directly told you will not own your own business, work for yourself, et cetera. And then on top of that, I'm not obviously a doctor myself, but if I think about some of the stereotypes of the, of that position, you're getting paid a lot and you have some advantages that come with that sort of prestigious position. And to hear you talk about it, I'm guessing that you've sacrificed some of those things to be able to do the kind of work that you're doing. So can you talk to me about just your own process with kind of wrestling with that and where you've landed?
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, totally. So I think the first thing about getting paid a lot, we also have hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans when we're coming out of training and we're starting our careers much later in life. So we actually. There's some statistics that show that people who work for UPS make more money across the course of their lifetime than physicians do. So the majority of them, there's some, like neurosurgeons and things that make more, but in general, like as a primary care doctor, as a family physician, we don't make anywhere near that. So there's that piece of it. There's this sort of thought that there's much more money out there than what we're actually getting. And then on top of that, we have all these loans that we're sort of paying off, you know, and then we are starting our families much later in life too, which sort of affects all of those things. So there's a lot of. There's a lot of things that, yeah, I gave up along the way or had to sort of put aside, you know, in order to just go through the training and then. Yeah, so. Right. So starting my own business, like going from a sort of stable position where I saw patients every day, knew who was coming in, I had some stable income. And transitioning out of that has been very challenging. For the first several years of my business, I continued to work in the clinic part time and then I did this on the side, sort of my side gig. And that sort of helped with that as far as just being having something that's sort of consistent for my family, but then taking the leap and saying, okay, now I'm going to go and do this completely has been super challenging. It's been two years now, and there's been months where I'm like, oh, the business is going under. I'm never going to. There's nothing. Where are all the patients? Where'd they go? And then the next month there'll be more. And then. So it's just. It's sort of all over the place. And so having that's been a little. It's been different. And I know all businesses sort of, you know, especially small businesses sort of go through that. And so I've leaned on other owners over other business owners. I know this is normal, but can you just bobble head and say, yes, it's normal, this is okay, you're gonna be okay. Because, yeah, we need that. I think it's to sort of normalize this whole process, but it's definitely different than being in the system. So, yeah, it's been challenging. The other piece of it, though, is that I come home energized. I come home happy, I come home excited, and I get joy and love and just even laughter from my patients when I see them every day. Right, exactly. Versus when I would come home from the clinic and I would be drained and I'd be tired and I would be snippy at my kids and it was just. And my husband. And so, yeah, you can't put a price tag on that. Like, that is. That's a whole shift in just my body, my mood the energy and knowing that I can do this long term. That's the other piece too, is I was looking for a way out. I was at, you know, I'm like, I can't do this forever. How do I retire early? How do I, you know, I was burning out in the system and versus this, I could do this for rest of my life. Which is also, you know, you think about, you know, what that payoff is over the long term. I think that makes a big difference too.
Sam Bauman:Yeah, absolutely. Tell me more about the businesses that you're networking with and getting that reaffirmation from and how you use those connections to kind of help you in running your business.
Michelle Haggerty:Oh, yeah, totally. So I've really leaned into that in the last year. So on Thursdays is my, like, networking day and I have set time on my calendar that I will meet with different folks from more so within the healthcare area, the birthing space, and things in the Twin Cities, which has been really fun because then there's all these different small businesses that I never knew about when I was in the big system. And now we can refer to each other and we can be supportive of each other and talk about different processes and things to help our businesses. So that's been really awesome. The other thing I've more recently done in the last six months has been leaning into. Have been leaning into other businesses that are outside my industry, which has been really fun and really fascinating. I actually did the 10 KSB Goldman Sachs program. I got that scholarship to do that. It's like a business training on your own business.
Sam Bauman:Oh, cool.
Michelle Haggerty:So you do that for 12 weeks. And that was at the end of last year. And so were sort of put in with different, like a group of us or six of us in each of the different groups. And so we continue to meet ever since that program once a month. And it's awesome. There's a CPA in the group, There's a marketing person in the group. There's somebody who sells like clothing online in the group. Like a somebody who works in the museum industry. People who are not at all in my industry at all. And the amount of support and just, you know, comfort and just realization of that. We're all sort of going through this together. And I got to the point where I'm like, 90% of what we do in small businesses are basically the same, except. And that 10% is where like our niche is or what, you know, what we're sort of doing in our field. But like, that 90% is we still need to market, we still need to, you know, we need to figure out our finances, we need to figure out all these other things. Right. And when we're all doing that together and we're all sort of navigating all of that, it just sort of makes sense to, you know, hear from other people and in other industries and how they're navigating that and what that all looks like.
Sam Bauman:I'm sure that this will resonate with you because you're kind of bringing a unique business model to your industry. But you know, what we've found is that actually considering the overlap in what it means to run a small business, sometimes you get better advice or better ideas from people in different industries because they're not stuck in sort of the patterns and stereotypes of whatever your industry is. And you get to kind of creatively apply solutions to problems.
Michelle Haggerty:Absolutely. And they have a different take on what I'm doing too. And I've had so many different suggestions that I'm like, I would never have thought of and nor would it have given me. Other people wouldn't have given me those suggestions within my industry either. It's just, it's things that, yeah, they're using technology in a different way or they're like using marketing in a different way or whatever it is. And so that's just opened my world to wow. And that's exactly why I've been networking more with a lot of honestly, women owned businesses is where I've been leaning into because it's just, it's been really fun to kind of hear what they're doing and what they're getting excited about and how we can support each other in really creative ways.
Sam Bauman:So yeah, there really are very few rules when it comes to running a business. Maybe a few more in the medical field, obviously, to think about patient information and all of that. But I think we often trick ourselves into thinking there are more rules or people are sort of telling us that there are rules. Like you can't run your own business when it's not really a rule.
Michelle Haggerty:Right, exactly. And I will say there's rules that have been sort of like these underspoken things, whatever. And I'm realizing, nope, it's actually not. I can actually do it. Like the texting the patients, Right. Like I can do that. Nobody says I can't. I need to use some HIPAA compliant things to do that. But the whole thought that you can't get connected with patients and you can't form those relationships, all of those things have been Sort of eye opening to me that no, actually you can have this really rich, fulfilling connection with the folks you're working with and you don't need to have these barriers between you and yeah do all that. So yeah, absolutely.
Sam Bauman:When you think about the future of your business or maybe if you think about the future of kind of this whole industry of postpartum care, what visions do you have for what that looks like?
Michelle Haggerty:Oh, there's so many. I want everyone to have access to the care that I'm providing and actually own or co executive direct a non profit that is called center for fourth Trimester Care. And we're working to train other physicians to do what we're doing and trying to help other healthcare providers in, you know, sort of leaning into this space and learning more about postpartum and learning more about the fourth trimester and really just trying to how do we increase that access, increase that care for people during this time. So yeah, my vision would be that everyone would have access. Hence also why we're trying to lean into the insurance systems and hopefully trying to get them to come on board as well. The other vision I have is I would love to be able to partner with larger businesses that they would provide our care as part of their benefits package. It's a tiny cost to them compared to even what they're paying for maternity leave and all these other sort of things that they're paying for. Even just the healthcare dollars and things that they're paying for insurance. And it makes a huge difference. We can get people back to work more efficiently. They're more confident moving back to work. We can encourage them or they're healthier if they are lactating. We can make sure that all that is sort of set up. We can work with employ to make sure that they have the space and they're providing the care that's needed for the person coming back to work. It's just the babies are healthier. I mean all these things that are sort of beneficial. It just is a win for employers to buy into it basically. So that's my vision also. I think that is actually more what I'd like to lean into more than the insurance side of things at this point. But sort of finding those companies that are willing to sort of take the risk and take the leap and lean into it because I know it'll beneficial.
Sam Bauman:The center for fourth Trimester Care, is.
Michelle Haggerty:That what it's called? Yes.
Sam Bauman:Tell me more about that. It's a training.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah. No, well, kind of. So we do we have three pillars, and the first is education. So we support education for both physicians and other healthcare providers around postpartum. So it can be anything from pelvic floor to lactation to physical recovery to how you take care of newborns, all that type of stuff. And then also education for patients as well. Our clients. So what do they need to think about in the postpartum period and fourth trimester? So we have webinars and we have a conference every year that we do as well. And then the other aspect is business development. We are teaching how to start a business. So how do you especially around with. For physicians who are like, wanting to work in this space, but they feel like, gosh, how do I get out everything we talked about before of how it's not possible? And so how do we sort of get over that and how do we overcome that barrier and make it possible for them to feel like they can take that leap? And then the last part is advocacy work. So we support and talk about bills and legislators that they're sort of supporting postpartum in the fourth trimester. And then we're even doing research as well. So we've got something called the Sandy Study right now, which looks at blood pressures postpartum and what happens normally postpartum for blood pressures. It's interesting. We do a lot of. We know a lot about. And we sort of worry about blood pressure during the pregnancy, but we actually don't have a lot of research around what normally happens postpartum with the blood pressure. And there's a lot of sort of fear around blood pressure going up. And people get into going to the hospital when really there may be. There is normally it goes up slightly postpartum and then comes back down. So what is that normal curve and what does that look like? So right now we're doing a study looking at what that looks like. So, yes, we have a lot of sort of avenues that we're trying to support and work with other organizations to connect with in this space.
Sam Bauman:And is this an organization that you started around the same time as your. In home care?
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah. Yep. I want to say it was like it was about a two years after. After I started my. My private practice. Yeah.
Sam Bauman:Mm. Awesome.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah. And it's with one of the other physicians who works in Colorado, who is one of the other ones that does this work.
Sam Bauman:Okay. So working with them, you get to connect with people not just in Minnesota.
Michelle Haggerty:Exactly. Yeah. And the other part we actually have is a physician directory that has. If people want to find this care in their area. They can look up at that directory to see if there's somebody in their area that does fourth trimester, postpartum care in the home. So they can look and find that as well. So there's some resources there for folks.
Sam Bauman:That's amazing. Yeah. So you're really blazing a lot of trails here, creating a new or rare business model. And like you said, I mean, just starting in the middle of COVID itself is a challenge. What keeps you going? What keeps you motivated as a business owner?
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, it's my patients, my clients. As soon as. Even if I have a couple days, I don't see people and then I see them again, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is why I love it. I actually went to a conference, and I was gone for several days, and I had come back, and I was really tired because I had come back really late one night, and I saw a patient early the next morning, and she was like, gosh, you must be exhausted. And I said I was until I showed up here. And now I'm really happy and excited, and I love being here with you and supporting you. So now all my energy has come back, and I'm ready to rock and roll. So, you know, I can tell in my body that it just, you know, I feel good with the work I'm doing, and so that makes that sort of makes it easier to continue to move forward. It's interesting because when I'm not doing. When I have sort of space on vacation or I'm, like, sort of out, not working for several days or I don't have patients for a while, that's when I kind of start, like, rethinking things and thinking, oh, do I really want. Is this what's happening? Maybe. Do I. Do I still want to do this? Or I want to find something else, and then I get back into it, and I just love it. So that's great.
Sam Bauman:That's definitely a good sign that you're in the right place, if that's a feeling you get when you come back to work.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, exactly.
Sam Bauman:Hopefully you're not dreading Mondays.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, there's no dread. Yeah, there's no dreading at all of Mondays. In fact, I get excited about Mondays. Yeah. Yeah. I really actually try to schedule people on Mondays because it really drives my week then.
Sam Bauman:Oh, wow.
Michelle Haggerty:That's cool.
Sam Bauman:Yeah, I love that. So what advice would you give to people who are thinking about starting a business? Maybe they're interested in starting the kind of business that doesn't really exist yet. Or they're running a business and they're struggling. What's your advice for them?
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, I think I just start. I just. I mean, again, it goes back to the one foot in front of the other, the one step, the do something every day that sort of moves you forward because the more that you do that, it just ends up snowballing and it just moves. Continues to move forward. And then you sort of get pushed forward just because of the momentum. So I think that is one of the biggest things. And then most recently it's connecting with other business owners. That's. That really has been. It can be very lonely and it can be very. Just feeling like you're kind of like out on this island by yourself, kind of fighting the good fight. And there's not really many people around doing the same thing. But then really there are. He just needs to reach out and connect with them. And I just find so much joy in being able to have that. Those coffee dates with people and say, like, how are you doing? And really hearing the ups and downs and lefts and rights and it's all great.
Sam Bauman:I wanted to ask you about that program, the Goldman Sachs business training program. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? I'm not familiar with it.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah. So this is the first time they actually had it in Minnesota, was this last year. But it's. They've been running it across the country. There's 16,000, I think, small businesses that have gone through the program now, and they're currently running one in South Dakota. So there's some businesses that are doing that sort of in this area. But basically it's a mini MBA for your business. So you think about going through an MBA program and you're like learning about all these other businesses and how to do marketing, whatever this is, specifically to your own business. So you learn about marketing for your business. You learn about. How do you. Yeah, the sort of financials and the spreadsheets, the, you know, all of the different tiny pieces of business stuff that you need to think about. And it was great for me because I had again, I had sort of gone through these steps, but then what was I missing? I didn't know what I was missing. And this sort of filled in the gaps for me. How do you connect with lenders and, you know, get with a banker and how do you know, what does like, venture capital mean? Like all these things. And maybe you won't ever use it for your business, but it really sort of opens up your world of what are all the possibilities of what you could do and how, and what you need to focus on in your own and what you're doing. So being a leader within your business, how do you set up those processes to make sure that things run smoothly? And so there's, you've always liked homework assignments and things and you meet regularly with all these experts across the country that are sort of teaching you how to actually run a business. And so it's about 10 hours a week. So it's 10 to 15 hours a week or so. Goldman Sachs pays for it all. So there's nothing that you need to pay for. There's two sort of three to four day sessions that you go in. So we had to go to St. Cloud for three to three days and then in the beginning and then at the end as well. So in person sessions. And they pay for all of that. They pay for your hotel, they pay for, you know, the drive and everything. So they really, they sort of fund it all to support you. And then the final thing is that then, now you're, we're part of this like 16,000 small businesses across the US who are. We can then lean into this network. So we have, there's a sort of platform that we can utilize. So for example, I reached out to a number of billers for the insurance aspect of it. So now I'd hire a biller for being able to bill the insurance, the claims for the insurance contracts. And so I could use this network then to find other small businesses who are billers who have gone through this training. So I love being able to utilize other small businesses who have, you know, are going through it. So it's really fun. And there's, I mean, you learn about, I mean, there's Kombucha Brewery in our group. There is, you know, a couple other breweries. There was like I said this museum who was somebody who does museum exhibits, like sort of all these different, the, what's it called? Happy Baby. The. Have you heard about the woman who's going against all the tariffs and stuff right now? Like, okay, so there's a. She created this small or this like, mat for babies to play with during dinner time and things. But she's with the tariffs now. She's not able to bring her. She was creating these mats overseas in China and now she's not able to bring her product into the country. And so she's about to go under because of this. And she was named the small Business of the year in Minnesota and so went out to the capital and got this, you know, award and things. And she's in the midst of losing her business because of the tariffs. So she's been all over the news. All over the. All over the world, actually. She's been in the news in the UK and all over the place. So there's been a lot of. A lot of stuff on her. But she was. She was in our group as well. So. Yeah, so, I mean, there's just like all these different, you know, sort of businesses that have been part of the. Part of the program. And so they. I'm assuming they're coming back to Minnesota at some point, so we assume the next couple years. But otherwise there's one national, one that's done every year. Well, so people can get a part of that too.
Sam Bauman:So. Cool. What a unique opportunity.
Michelle Haggerty:It was amazing. And I. Yeah, I think I just got an email about it and just applied and.
Sam Bauman:Wow.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, just sort of happened. So it was amazing. Yeah.
Sam Bauman:So is your business just you right now, or do you have a team that also provides these services?
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, so I have. There's five of us. I'm sort of the head physician. There was four other physicians who work under me as well. We have one that is in Rochester, one that's in, like, Marina and St. Croix, kind of Stillwater area, and then there's two other ones that work in sort of northwest of the Twin Cities. So one sort of Brooklyn park area and then one that's in, like, Plymouth kind of Hamel. So. Yeah, so we serve pretty much all the Twin Cities and then Rochester as well. And then virtually we can see everyone in the state. So we're able to support folks that are in the state as well. Something that's sort of unique about our practice, in addition to what we do is we're also all breastfeeding medicine physicians, meaning that we're. We sort of provide care above what lactation consultants do. So if there's any issues with lactation that are beyond what lactation consultant is able to manage chronic mastitis, breast abscess. If there's issues with. I'm trying to think what else. Like sort of. For Anonymous. So there's issues like a tongue tie, all kinds of different things that we sort of navigate cancer with or chronic illness with lactation, different medications and things, then usually what happens is a lactation consultant would refer back to their OB or pediatrician. And unfortunately they just have zero training in lactation. And so we are sort of this specialized care that provides that extra level of support for people. So we get A lot of referrals from lactation consultants for things that are sort of beyond their scope to navigate.
Sam Bauman:So you talking about that is making me wonder what it's like for you having to go into people's homes and have all the supplies that you need to do whatever it is you need to do. I mean, do you find that you're more limited in certain ways or.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, not at all. I have a little suitcase, a little black bag, and then I have my scale and I also have a therapeutic ultrasound that I can bring along too. So I have a bags. I kind of have like truck it along, but. But yeah, no, I have access to everything I need, which has been really the only thing I don't have access to is like an actual ultrasound or like a mammogram, for example. And I just refer people to get that done at a center. So we can just do a referral and then they just go there and get it done and then I get the results. Sure, yeah.
Sam Bauman:So do you manage all your own supplies? I mean, how does that work? It's sort of a specific question, but it's like you think about a doctor's office and they've probably got a closet full of tongue depressors.
Michelle Haggerty:Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, no, right. We order all of our own supplies. That was a learning process of where do we order from and how do we. So there's. And there's like sort of wholesalers that you sort of, you know, purchase from. Actually Minnesota or the Twin Cities has a really awesome program, a company that provides that sort of takes things that other systems don't no longer need and no longer want it. So they have an oversupply of and they'll put it in a warehouse. And then as small practices we can go in and purchase them at a discounted rate. So that's pretty awesome that we have that here. But yeah, otherwise it's interesting. You don't need all the stuff that they actually do have. It's almost like an abundance of things that it's too much. Hence why there's this warehouse that's sort of taking it on. So yeah, I mean it's. It's not necessary to have the level of things. We also do the two month vaccines in the home, which is something that people really love because they're able to breastfeed, they're able to snuggle their baby. We can give the vaccines while they're snuggling their baby and then we just leave them on their porch or wherever they are snuggling, and then we can go. And so they don't just shove the baby in a car seat and try and get them home. So it's really lovely. And so we're able to do that even. I mean, really, anything you can think of, we're really able to do, you know, in the home, which is pretty awesome. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. There's very rarely stuff that we need to send people into the hospital for, and that's really. If there's a true emergency and I'll need to go in.
Sam Bauman:I just wish I had known about you when I was pregnant with my kids.
Michelle Haggerty:I hear that a lot, which is. We try to be. That's. I think my biggest downfall is I'm not. I'm not. I don't mark it as I should, I think, because I hear that constantly. Like, if I had only known about you. And I'm like, I'm trying. Trying to get the word out. Yeah.
Sam Bauman:That's a good sign, though, if you're getting that good of a response.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's a service that people want or. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Sam Bauman:Amazing. Well, this has been so fun. I'm just excited to know that you exist and that you're finding good success because I absolutely think that it's. It's a shift in the medical industry that's really needed so completely.
Michelle Haggerty:That's what I feel like, too. What I'm excited about is I hope that it gets people dreaming.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Michelle Haggerty:You know, especially other physicians. Like, it doesn't have to be fourth trimester work, but if there's something that they're interested in menopause or whatever like that, you know, things possible. Yeah, just do it. Just leap and see what happens. And, you know, they can do it on the side for a while and see if it works or whatever, but it doesn't need to be this big, scary thing.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Michelle Haggerty:Yeah.
Sam Bauman:So cool. So what other small business would you like to spotlight today?
Michelle Haggerty:Oh, yeah. So I. One of the ones that really helped me start my own business was. So her name is Megan with Mother Moon acupuncture.
Sam Bauman:I think I've seen her before.
Michelle Haggerty:Really? Yeah, yeah.
Sam Bauman:Like personally or, like, gone to her as a patient.
Michelle Haggerty:Oh, yeah. Amazing. Yeah. So, yeah, she's amazing. She. So she's in South Minneapolis and has, number one, been just a huge support for me all along, but also just incredible with her patients and her clients. Just really. She works with people, mainly working through fertility, pregnancy. And then she'll see people postpartum as well. And especially my patients. She'll actually see them in the home and do, like, home acupuncture and home, like, massage when they're. When they're postpartum. And it's just, she's been just this huge inspiration and also a way of looking at, like, how can we support people in this space? And from. And so I sort of use her as, like, a model to what? Okay, how can I do this from my, you know, but from my angle. And so she was always a huge guiding light for me and still is to this day. So I'd highly recommend. Recommend her for anyone. Yeah.
Sam Bauman:Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you so much for talking with me today.
Michelle Haggerty:Awesome.
Sam Bauman:It's been absolutely lovely.
Michelle Haggerty:I really appreciate it. Yeah, I love this, too. This is really great. Thank you so much for having me.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Michelle Haggerty:Awesome.
Sam Bauman:Take the headphones off. Thank you to Michelle Haggerty, owner of 4th Trimester Doc, for talking with me this week. You can find Michelle on her website@fourth trimesterdoc.com 4th is spelled out and also on Instagram 4th trimester document. If you want to check out Michelle's nonprofit, the center for Fourth Trimester Care, you can find them on their website at C. And then the number 4TC. CO. We'll put that in the show notes as well. Thanks. And tune in next week for our next episode.
