Not So Small
Running a small business is anything but small. In each episode our host, Sam Bauman, asks small business owners about their challenges, triumphs, and the passion that keeps them going. Through this, Not So Small seeks to spotlight and strengthen the small businesses that are dedicated to their community and care about more than the bottom line.
Not So Small
Laune Bread: Chris MacLeod
In the season finale of Not So Small, host Sam Bauman sits down with Chris MacLeod, founder and co-owner of Laune Bread, a Minneapolis bakery that has made connection the cornerstone of their business philosophy. What began as Chris' desire to feel more connected to his work has evolved into a thriving business that prioritizes local ingredients, community building, and meaningful relationships at every level.
Chris shares his journey from working early morning shifts at commercial bakeries to creating a space where connection drives every decision. His wake-up call came when he realized he didn't even know what wheat really was, despite working with flour daily. This revelation, along with some others, eventually led him to Minnesota where he would be able to source local grains.
Chris, along with the help of his business partner Tiff Singh, have built more than just a bakery, they've created a community space where regulars know each other, staff feel supported with guaranteed hours and consistent schedules, and the energy stays positive. Chris reflects on the challenges of communication and management, sharing how he's learned to create systems that support the team's independence while maintaining the quality and values that define Laune.
Throughout the conversation, Chris offers candid insights about the challenges of small business ownership, from seasonal fluctuations and staffing decisions to the fear of losing connection to the hands-on work as the business grows. He emphasizes the importance of having a trusted business partner, maintaining physical and mental health, and staying true to your values even when easier paths present themselves.
As Laune looks toward the future, Chris envisions expanding their educational offerings, particularly working with young adults to teach whole grain baking and help people reconnect with intuitive cooking.
This episode beautifully illustrates how a business built on authentic values and genuine connection can create not just financial success, but a meaningful way of life that enriches everyone that interacts with it.
Guest Info
Community Shoutout(s)
Other Links
Host & Show Info
- Host Name: Sam Bauman (she/her)
- About the Host: Sam is the President of Mellowlark Labs, a Twin Cities-based small business consulting agency. She has a masters degree in counseling psychology, a field she worked in for several years before applying her skills in business, and is certified in Organization Development.
Podcast Website
Sound Editing By: Adam Rondeau
Podcast Art By: Andy Bauman (website)
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to not so Small, the podcast where we ask small businesses the big questions. I'm your host, Sam Bauman, and this week's episode is special because it's the last one of the first season of not so Small. This week, I sat down with Chris MacLeod. Chris is the founder and co owner of Launa Bread, a bakery in Minneapolis that prioritizes local ingredients and community building. In fact, the whole mission of Laona Bread is rooted in connection. Connection to the ingredients they use, to the farmers who grow them, their customers, and to each other. Chris and his business partner, Tiff are so thoughtful and intentional in every area of their business, and the care that they bring to their work has created a really vibrant and connected community. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Maybe you could start by just introducing yourself and telling me what your business is.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah. My name is Chris MacLeod. I am the founder and co owner of Launa Bread. We are a small bakery on East Lake street that prioritizes in local foods and building community. And then I have a business partner. Her name is Tiff Singh. And we've been working together for, like, five years. And at this point, you know, I think, like, some people call it like a business marriage, but our relationship feels very close. And so she's more like a sister to me, just like, as a human being, like, emotionally supporting each other, both here in our baking home and in our lives outside of it.
Sam Bauman:Yeah. Oh, it seems like the ideal kind of business partner.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah.
Sam Bauman:Somebody that you can. Can have that kind of relationship with. So tell me about the very beginning of Launa Bread. What was the problem that you set out to solve when you started this business?
Chris MacLeod:So I was working in a lot of different bakeries before I started this, and I sort of realized that what I was doing wasn't feeling, like, connected. You know, often I was working at one in the morning, and by the time I left was before the customers were coming in, so I didn't know who were making bread for. And then also, like, not really knowing the ingredients. The first job I worked at was after college, and were baking and, you know, using flour, which is just this, like, white powder. And one day I was looking at it, and I was like, I don't know what this is. You know, I was like, this is an ingredient. But, like, what is wheat?
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Chris MacLeod:And then we did a little farm field trip, and I was like, wow, this is so funny to me and probably to most people in the United States or the world of, like, we consume bread Daily. But, like, what is bread? You know, like, what are the ingredients? And so just working different places. And, like, some of them, we would source local tomatoes or local cheese or, like, whatever was possible locally, but not grains. And so I moved here from California in 2014. I wanted to have seasons, but I also wanted to source the primary ingredient of a bakery, which is wheat. So I never spent any time in Minnesota when I moved here. And I moved here partially because of Mill City and my understanding of a region that can grow grain. And in 2014, the ability to grow, purchase, like, local grain was really hard. There weren't a lot of people that were, like, interested in selling in a local market. Luckily, I found Mark Askard and Moorhead. And so when I started in 2015, I was really only able to do so because he was interested in selling me, like, 500 pounds of flour. And, you know, now we get, like, 600 pounds a week. But I was buying, like, 500 pounds of flour from him, like, every, like, two months because I was very small.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Chris MacLeod:And so, yeah, what I wanted to do was, like, feel a connection with what I was making and a connection with what I was making for the people that would eat it. And it started with flour. And originally all I was doing was baking bread and pretzels, and then I started adding other things, and I was working at farmer's markets and. And meeting the produce farmers there. And farmer's markets are hard. You can have successful days. You can also have slow days based off of usually the weather, but just life. And it's like with these other people at the markets, you share success and you share hardship and failure, but at the end of the day, you have a loaf of bread and you share it with them, and they share radishes or carrots or whatever with you, and you create this bond with them. And so then realizing I don't need to just purchase local grains, let's also start incorporating whatever we can from Minnesota or the upper Midwest. We have a lot of local farm partners that we work with, and May just started. And so we get emails every week right now, which is, like, we have spinach, we have chives, we have some herbs and radishes. So this is just the start of the really exciting season for us, where every week we get these deliveries and get to catch up with our farmers. And, like, we know their lives, they know our lives, and we just, like, open these boxes to, like, beautiful greens, and it's really exciting.
Sam Bauman:So are you sort of crafting your menu around what you can Source locally.
Chris MacLeod:Yes, we do. Sometimes things will last for two weeks. Sometimes things will last for months. We try to extend, like, local food from or, like, through the fall and winter, and sometimes it's easier to do, and sometimes it's harder based off of, like, the success of the harvest.
Sam Bauman:Right.
Chris MacLeod:So inevitably, we're buying cases of produce from, like, local distributors, but we're still trying to, like, limit our menu about what we're doing. So, like, we're not buying, like, things that are not going to be in season. So we're not buying strawberries from a local distributor in January, but we're able to use frozen blueberries and frozen strawberries and raspberries that we receive in the summer and process, and we'll freeze in different formats. But, yeah, our menu changes a lot depending on what it is. Usually we have staple pastries, and then we have things that will show up for a certain amount of time. Right now, we're making, like, five different pastries with rhubarb, because rhubarb is, like, the first thing that grows in Minnesota, and we trade rhubarb at the storefront, and so people in the community bring it in, and they get store credit. And so right now, we have a rhubarb vanilla cream pastry, and then a bostock that's dipped in poached rhubarb. Rhubarb simple syrup, and has rhubarb on top. And then we're making some rhubarb jams as well.
Sam Bauman:Wow. Sounds delicious.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah.
Sam Bauman:So for you, the desire to find locally sourced ingredients started with wanting to be more connected to what you were doing.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah.
Sam Bauman:Tell me a little bit more about that and how that shows up across your business.
Chris MacLeod:I mean, I feel like it gives me, like, a purpose to be here and, like, joy to be here. I especially noticed that around, like, really busy holidays where we're just like. Like, Christmas and Thanksgiving, we're just, like, hustling so hard, and I start to get disconnected because I'm, like, not really, like, thinking about what we're doing. I'm just thinking about, like, what we have to get done.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Chris MacLeod:And then that season ends, and I look around, and I'm looking at, like, the bags of flour, and I'm like, Mark grew that, and Moorhead and. And Patrick and his crew milled that in northeast Minneapolis. And, you know, I look at, like, the bag of carrots, and I think about Les and Ells and how it's January and I miss them, and I haven't seen them since this market ended. And like, two weeks ago, the farmer's market started. And the first thing I did that day was go to the market and hug them and, like, see how they're doing. And, you know, I think it's like a really good driving force and energy to be here and know the people that grow our food. And it also makes us honor their work and want to reduce waste. And so part of our goal is reducing waste and not having, like, a full pastry case at the end of the day. I think another goal or another problem I was solving was, like, waste. A lot of bakeries are worked at, and most bakeries are just, like, very wasteful because you want to have all the products all day long. And I was thinking about it more, and I was like, 30% of my work when I show up at the bakery goes into the compost or is hopefully donated. But, like, you know, I was showing up at one in the morning, and it's like a very physical job, very tired, and I'm like, 30% of what I do isn't going to people. And I wanted to change that. And I think when you don't care about the ingredients you use or there's no connection to what you're using, it's really easy to just ignore that part of life and just discard it. And it's very sad here when we throw something away. And so we try to adjust our numbers every week, and it's impossible to guess who going to come in on a given day. But I think that we're pretty good at limiting our waste and finding avenues to not throw things away. Whether that is like using an app called Too Good to Go, which gives a discount for the last half an hour of our day, so people can get a bundle for a cheap discount. And then we also donate, but we prefer not to donate, like unsold bread. We prefer to donate with integrity. And so often we'll like, make a large batch of bread and donate that to a community organization so that they can share that as a fresh bread product. And then we also donate weekly down the street as well. And it's. I mean, I think, like, personally, it's like, I just feel connected with so many people in this state. I was texting with Mark Askegaard a few weeks ago about Noreen Wheat, which is a variety that he grew and that we bought from him. And he was asking how it was behaving and how it's working in our bread, and he's like, oh, by the way, I just planted the three Wheat varieties and golden flax and, like, you know, they live on the other side of the state. And at the same time, I feel like they could be my neighbor and that I, like, could just text him and be like, hey, can I come over tomorrow? So that's just, like, really wonderful. And I think that it also gives us, like, more opportunity for creativity because we don't always know what we're going to get in terms of the produce or the fruit, and we also don't necessarily know the quantity. And sometimes, like, a pastry will last for a week because it was a really bad year for plums. And so we just have 10 pounds of plums, not like 100 pounds. And so, you know, after running our brick and mortar for three and a half years, like, realizing, like, something that we are really good at is pivoting and being adaptable and flexible and just, like, being resilient, knowing how to work with what we have, whether it's like, an abundance or a lack thereof.
Sam Bauman:I love that. How do you think your customers experience some of the things that you're talking about? Whether it's that, you know, the changes in menu that come from some of the unpredictability or, you know, on the more positive side, just that feeling of connectedness that you're cultivating here?
Chris MacLeod:I think in general, people really enjoy it. You know, I think, like, we live in a world where people are accustomed to everything being available all the time. So whether it's our menu always being there or being the same, or, you know, having the product available for the whole day, you know, there's obviously disappointment that people experience, but there's also a lot of understanding. And we do our best to make it work. But, like, we sold out of our rhubarb pastries really quickly on Saturday, and we knew there were going to be more people that wanted them than we could make. But I think it's sort of like a re education in food or, like, the cycle of life. And, yeah, people get super excited. I think there's, like, more excitement about something because we can't always offer it here. And there's also, like, more excitement for the people working here for when it comes in. And then there's maybe relief when we stop making it because it's, like, a lot of work or there's this sadness because now we're gonna have to wait another 10 months or something like that. But I think that in general, most of our customers, or I hope most of them understand what we're doing, and I think it Allows them to feel some connection as well. I write newsletters often and a lot of the newsletters are about seasonally, what we're doing and why we're doing it, or like what the change is and the reasons for the change. And I think that people appreciate having us as a bridge to the farmers and the countryside. And in this world where we're rushing around all the time, the food that we make is slow, it takes three days. And the food that we make is imperfect. You know, we're all making it by hands. There's six different people with six different hands. And like, what we want to do is just like celebrate this like, imperfection and like the short lived cycle of the things that are available.
Sam Bauman:So you talked about re educating your customers on the food cycle or the cycle of life. And part of the way that you're doing that, it sounds like, is through those newsletters. And I get the feeling that probably the way that you and your staff are talking to customers, you know, like you said, they're getting excited when new things come in and then they're talking about, you know, why things are leaving or what's coming next. And so your customers get a little window into your experience with the food.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, it's hard to, like, there's a lot of communication that has to happen and it's like hard to make sure everybody's in the loop or all of our staff, you know, because a lot of it is like me talking to a farmer or Tiff and I looking at what we have in the fridge or what was coming that week and then like trying to communicate it with the bakers of like, okay, we're pivoting. We're not doing this blueberry Danish anymore. We're getting this fresh stuff that we want to use now and then also trying to communicate that to our front of house staff and then sort of working with them to be able to communicate with the customers of why are menu changing and the significance of that. And it's definitely a challenge to have that be a success every week. And when we first started this brick and mortar, the bakers were also the people that worked at the counter. That was a goal of mine of like, I always had zero connection with customers. I want to have connection with customers and I want our staff also to have a connection with the customers. I think that's really important. And after like a year and a half, as we got busier, we all were like not getting enough work done because we'd be scooping cookies or shaping bread, and then somebody would be like, I need a second person up here. And then all of a sudden, nobody's to going scooping cookies or shaving bread. And so now we have dedicated front of house staff. You know, they also, like, come in the back and they learn about the processes and how they work. But it's, I think, like, the newsletter is, like, a good avenue. And then also, we just, like, try to make space for everybody that comes in, whether it's talking about our ingredients or talking about their day or life. It's just like, this feels like a very positive, supportive place to be, and we always want it to be that way. And something that I think about is, like, as we get busier or find more success, like, how can we still create space? And some days, like, on Saturdays, it's really hard to do that. But then we also see, like, you know, our regulars start to know each other, and so, like, now they are able to, like, show up in the way that we behind the counter. We're, like, showing up for each other.
Sam Bauman:Okay. So you, in the way that you're interacting with customers, are sort of taking it out of this transactional space, which is probably where White Powder Bakery tends to go, and creating these moments of connection. But you're also creating a culture of connection here because it's permeating beyond just employee to customer. And now you're seeing some of that happening kind of between customers. That's so special.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah, it's really cool. I mean, we feel really lucky here that the energy that people come in with is just generous and kind. And we're all human. We all make mistakes. And sometimes we make big mistakes or small mistakes. But, like, the reaction that we get from most people when that happens from a customer is just like, don't worry about it. We're all good. We understand there's not aggression here. People are in a rush sometimes, but overall, everybody, it feels like we. We work as an intentional business, and what we do is intentional. And it feels like when people show up, they also have this intention, and their intention is to be a decent human being.
Sam Bauman:That's a pretty good foundation.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah.
Sam Bauman:You can accomplish a lot if you're starting from that point. Wow. So how many people are on your team right now, total?
Chris MacLeod:So just Tiff and myself, and then we have four bakers and two front of house folks.
Sam Bauman:And tell me a little bit more about how you do manage the communication that's needed to keep things going and just sort of like, the Relationships between your team members.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah, I think that is probably like the most challenging part of our business. Or like, I think communication and learning that everybody has a different way that they communicate and they operate and that they want to accomplish tasks. And seeing these all different and how do we find one way to communicate that is sufficient for everybody's needs? And especially was hard at the beginning to be like, nobody thinks like me or works like me. I need to stop expecting them to do so. And like, I need them to. I need to teach myself that nobody can read my mind, you know, and that like more and more communication is just needed and is important and everybody wants that and like, for them to like thrive and be independent. I just like we tiff and I just like realize like, the way we're communicating is not affected of whether it's like the list style that we think works is not working or just like verbally what were like saying is not working. This winter or fall, I went on vacation and I wrote a big list of to dos of like, you know, this is what I do that I don't know if anybody else knows how to do. And then like a month later I was like, oh my God, we just live in this like co dependent relationship. And like, for the business to succeed, I have to write down this list for me to leave. And so it was a really good moment of just like, there's all this communication that's missing, whether it's just like a few folks know one process or like what to do with like dishes or something. And so really just like going around and like asking everybody is like, what is missing, you know, for you personally or like that you see around here. And so. And then also just trying to figure out like the things that I always do and being like, I'm gonna. I need to write these down on a whiteboard and just be like, I'm gonna stop doing these things. Like just like putting butter on a tray. I always do that on Tuesday. I don't need to do that. But like, I started doing that and I kept doing that. And then I was thinking like, does anybody else know about this thing? And so this learning to give up control.
Sam Bauman:I was just gonna ask about that because that's such a theme that we hear when we're talking with business owners. You're certainly in a business where it's impossible not to give up that control, right? There's no way you could be running the store by yourself or. Or even having to oversee everything. So how did you get Yourself to the point where you were able to do that. And what were the challenges that you experienced in letting go of some control?
Chris MacLeod:I mean, I still definitely have stress dreams.
Sam Bauman:That's fair.
Chris MacLeod:And it's just generally like, yeah, like, showing up to work and like, nothing is how I thought I was so supposed to be. And then I wake up, I go to work, and everything is fine.
Sam Bauman:Yeah, that probably helps you feel like you can continue to give up control.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah, it is. Like, a few weeks ago, I was sick and I stayed home for a few days and I came back and Tiff was like, all of the spreadsheets and systems that you made are really helpful because I didn't have to call you. Like, everybody knew what to do. And so, like, that was like a really, like, warming moment of like, cool, we're doing stuff. Right. I don't. I'm not needed.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Chris MacLeod:I can be sick and go home and not show up. I mean, like, when I started this business, I was always a baker. I've never managed. And then Tiff joined me, and then were renting space. It was just the two of us. And after a while we decided that we wanted to fully jump in and have a brick and mortar. When we did that, I never considered employees. Obviously they're going to be there, but I never considered the employee part of it, of having folks and managing them and making schedules and making a handbook. And it's like, I don't have positive role models from bakeries. I've worked at that. And I think that both in terms of, like, the baking and the managing, like, Tiff and I are working off of what not to do and, like, who not to replicate. And I think it's a lot of, like, just self learning and problem solving. And like, when somebody makes a mistake, the first thing I think of is like, is there a problem with the communication? Is there a problem with the recipe or steps in the recipe? Are we disorganized? Is there too much going on? I don't go directly to this person doesn't know what they're doing. It's like, what are we as a business doing that's not effective? That's not supporting this person to succeed. And like, one of those things was like, adding checkboxes to all of, like, the weights or ingredients on a recipe, which is something I've never had in my life. Never needed. Did it after like two and a half years. And our first employee was like, now you do this. She's like, this is like the most effective way for me to do my job. And it just took so long. And it was just like, in my head, in my experience, I was, like, not needed. And then it was just like, you know, a mixing issue with, like, croissant of, like, missing the sugar or the salt. And we had a bad batch and just like, trying to, like, imagine the whole system and like, every step of it. How do we, like, improve it for that individual, but also, like, as a team, because, like, one person might scale every ingredient and somebody else might receive it the next day to put it in the mixer and mix it. And it's like, okay, like, we also needed to define where that salt container goes. Does it go with the flour or does it go, like, on the table next to the mixer? And then as a team, huddle up and, like, define all of these steps. So it's, you know, we have like a to do list that I write every Monday for people to see Tuesday morning. And the more. The more I've been doing it, the more I see that, like, we have very successful weeks. We have time to do that. And when I'm tired or I just, like, put it off, because Monday is supposed to be a weekend day for me, but usually it's not. And if I put it off or I don't do a thorough job, we're not as successful. And then also people or the staff are coming to tiffer I and bugging us, which is not a negative on them, but they are needing more communication from us that we didn't start with in the week. And then what happens is our zone of tolerance decreases. And so the throughout the week, the more that they ask us questions, the more we have, like, less energy to reply to them. Or it's like, I'm trying to do this other thing. I don't want to make time for you right now. And so it's like, immediately the consequences are seen when we are not effectively communicating and making lists at the beginning of the week, or when we have create a new recipe and we have a discovered that we needed, like, a very clear format for, like, making a new recipe. Whether you're like, taking something from a book and transcribing it, or just like, taking something from your brain. So every time an issue happens or, like, happens like, three times within, like, a month, we're like, we gotta, like, think about, like, the communication that we are currently doing and the communication that we need to succeed and, like, talk as a team of like, what do you need?
Sam Bauman:What you're talking about is really just a different kind of connection, I think. I mean, it's empathy. You're looking at a situation and you're not just experiencing that situation from your own perspective. You're thinking about not only the other person's perspective, but the whole system that situation exists in. And I mean, that kind of communication comes from a place of connection rather than a place of, I don't know, selfishness or single mindedness. And it seems like you're finding really good success in that.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah. Thank you. It's, you know, like part of it was like, our staff is like, we want to feel independent. And six months or a year ago, the way that you're communicating, we don't feel independent. We have to come to you, ask you questions. And now I'll like, be in the bakery and I'll look around and like, they're like asking each other the questions. And part of me is like, it's funny because I'm like, you should come to me because I know all the knowledge. But then I'm like, really, like, that's like, not actually like the goal that we're trying to create here.
Sam Bauman:Yeah, you've succeeded more if they're asking each other. Yeah, but that's not the instinct at first. Yeah, yeah. So tell me about some of the most challenging moments that you've experienced throughout the course of running this business.
Chris MacLeod:I mean, I think that, like, discovering issues of communication can be very challenging in that, like, it can take a long time to resolve. I am like a slow thinker and I sit with things a lot. And so, you know, like, the show must go on. We're baking every day or like five days of the week. And so like, we might have a problem on Tuesday, but like, it might take me two weeks to figure out how to like, really resolve that. So that can be challenging. And it's the same with bread too. Like, I'm constantly thinking about the bread that we baked last week or that day before. And there are periods where like, our croissants are just not looking good. And it's a bummer to me. They still taste delicious, but the texture is like off and the volume is off. And it can be hard to fix those problems because there's so many various variables. You know, it could be like humidity, temperature. The flower can change the people that are or different people that are here throughout the week. And so like, those things are really slow to, like, figure out. And sometimes there's like no solution. And then I'll be on a Run at home. And, like, the next day I show up and I'm like, I figured it out, or I think I did.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Chris MacLeod:I have this great solution, but it's been like a month of just, like, unhappy croissants. And what else has been challenging? I think just like, you know, we're a small food business. We have busy times and we have slow times, and we guarantee all of our staff hours. We don't cut anybody when it's slow. And that was intentional. You know, we. We. Our staff have pretty much like a set schedule every week. Because we're open four days of the week, we're able to give that to them. Whereas, like, a lot of food businesses that are open seven days of the week, you might have, like, a schedule for two weeks and it changes, and it's really hard in your personal life. And so were, like, starting our business, really. Tiff and I were like, what are the things that we can do to support ourselves and what we're doing to support ourselves, but also support the people that work here. But that being said, like, the winter is generally slow and the summer is generally busy. There's some caveats in that. But, like, the summer busyness is all the produce that we get, and it's just like, we don't. The only things that we get in cans are olives, tomatoes, and, like, coconut milk. Everything else we get fresh we process and make into jams or fillings ourselves. And the summer, we get so much stuff that we have to process and, you know, make for our pastries and our breads, and it just takes a long time. And I think we, like, last year we definitely should have had a dishwasher, and we didn't. And this year we're hiring a high school student to work. And we're all looking forward to. That's sort of just like this, like, question of, like, committing to, like, a full time person, I guess, or like, are we gonna, I don't know, have to cut somebody in six months? Like, are we gonna still be busy enough? Like, we just haven't had to do that before. And so it's sort of like we just don't really want to have to run into that. So we're experimenting with the summer dishwasher. And then we might very quickly learn that, like, we just always need a dishwasher. And the challenges, yeah. Are just like, there's weeks where we have a lot of space either, like, Tiff and I, to do office work and not just be on the floor doing production. And our Staff have like, more room to like, do their tasks. And then there's weeks that are really busy where Tiff and I don't do any office work at work. And our staff are all running around and we're running around and you know, we still get emails about like doing special events or like whatnot. And it's just like feeling of like our list never gets smaller, it only grows. Or somebody called in sick. But I was imagining this week to get all this work done and now there's no space. And I, you know, I think like a solution is hiring another person. It's like pretty clear in my mind. But part of that is like trying to figure out like what they would do eight hours of a day. Because a lot of what Tiff and I do is float. On some days there's very specific tasks that we do in production. And on some days we just check in and see if anybody needs help or if somebody's sick, we cover for them.
Sam Bauman:And like you said, you don't want to end up hiring another person and then eventually having to cut back on unexpectedly.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah. And I think it's like there are certain things that are just like paralyzing decisions where it's like, I think we should do this, but I don't know. And so we just don't do anything. And there's like lots of instances of that. And then one day we make the decision and it's like, oh my God, for months.
Sam Bauman:Should have done that months ago.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, I think that's just like the nature of it. Like you, even if you go to business school or like, even if you manage somewhere else, like you're never going to know what you need and what you don't need. And ultimately, like, I think about myself now and myself 10 years ago or five years ago and like, this is. There's like so much growth that I experience here and like the growth, it just like it makes me very happy and like to imagine like myself as like a 15 year old who didn't know what he wanted to do but had never baked before. Like, I didn't start baking until I was 22 and now I, I still do it and I think about like my personal growth and I feel about, think about like the growth of the business. And like, part of me is like scared of getting to a point where I don't bake at all anymore because that, you know, like, eventually that is a very big reality of like, I just become a manager Tiff just becomes a manager and that is, that will happen if it needs to happen. But like, we also very want to be connected with our ingredients and with our process and our people still. And so it's this like fear of like success because then I'm not doing what I want to do or I'm not like, don't have time to engage with our customers, you know, and in the weeks that we're like in the weeds, you know, I'll see people in the front, I want to talk to you, but then I'm like, if I talk with them, I'm not doing my work back here. And if I'm not doing my work back here, I have to stay later. And it becomes this like exchange and which doesn't feel good.
Sam Bauman:Right.
Chris MacLeod:And I mean ultimately like having a therapist is like a wonderful person to have to help me like identify my feelings and like why they're occurring and then to like reinvest in myself so that I can show up the next day and like lose that transaction feeling that I have.
Sam Bauman:Yeah, well, you know, one of the things you said earlier is that the excitement that you get in the connection that you feel to the work that you're doing is one of the things that, you know, keeps you coming back, keeps you motivated. And if you're feeling less connected to that because you are less connected to it in some way because you're, you know, doing office work, then, you know, it's good that you're recognizing that and kind of wrestling with how to keep connected to the work even if your work tasks are changing sometimes.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah, there's like days where the schedule has me like mixing the dough or shaping. And I really love those days and I love that I'm able to still schedule myself to be a bread boy. And then the other days of the week, I'm more just specifically in the managerial role. And I still ask Tyler or Natalie what temperature was dough at when it came out the mixer and I'll still come over and pat a loaf and see how it's feeling. And it happens less so now. But when we first opened, so many people are like, when are you opening your second location? I was like, well, why would you ask that question? Like, we just opened this one. Like, let's celebrate where we are. And also like capitalism is so funny.
Sam Bauman:There's definitely an assumption of perpetual growth, right?
Chris MacLeod:Yes. Huh. And like what we are trying to do is like at the minimum sustain and at the maximum regenerate. And we like when we started this business. We, like, we're living in a spectrum of reality to idealism. And, you know, at the time, idealism was like buying local flour directly from a farmer. And we, like. We got there. And so, like, adding, like, another location is, like, going the wrong way. Because then in my. You know, like, in economics, it's like, well, then we can buy more flour. We can get more money to farmers. But for me personally, and I think as like, a group of bakers, what we're doing is we're, like, disconnecting, because now it's like, we're making these, like, greater financial decisions. And so we could be open Saturday or. Sorry, we could open, like, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and make more money that way. But then, like, Tiff and I would impact our lives and therefore impact our staff's lives. And originally, our plan was to be Wednesday through Sunday. And we opened, like, gradually just Friday and then Saturday and then Thursday and then Wednesday. And we realized that, like, financially, were making enough money to not open Sundays. And Tiff has a daughter, you know, and a family, and I have a girlfriend and my own life. And to have a weekend day off in the food industry and everybody has a weekend day off is, like, magical.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Chris MacLeod:And so, like, as long as we can, we'll never be open Sundays. And we're constantly just, like, trying to, like, figure out how to, like, continue living in a regenerative mindset. Holidays are definitely really hard to do and trying to figure out how to make that work and stay connected. But in general, it's like, we feel we give support and we receive support with the farmers that we work with or people in the community. It's like, we want to support them because without them, we would exist in a lesser state. And they want us to thrive and succeed because they now have a connection as farmers to people who are eating their food. And I think something that's really unique about our business is we have agency with grain growers in a state that has a grain commodity system. And so with, like, one of our farmers, Mark Asgard and his daughter Beth, they grow a variety of wheat for us that we ask them to grow. And our bakery uses, like, 30,000 pounds of wheat a year annually, which is, I think, 15 acres. And Mark and his daughter grow, like, 400 acres of wheat. They're different varieties, but, like, they value this connection that we have. And they're like, well, you know. And also, we can't buy all of our flour from them. So, like, really, we buy, like, five acres of their 400. But they're still invested in us to grow things that we are interested in. In the same token, they grew a variety that nobody locally wanted to buy. Last year was a really bad wheat growing year and the protein levels were really low. And Mark asked if we would be interested in buying any. And because we have a relationship with the Miller Bakersfield Flour and Bread, were able to buy grain directly from Mark that Bakersfield stores for us. And part of, you know, part of me, like, thinks about, like, the scale of his farm, and I feel like, so insignificant of being like, I'm only buying, like £2,000. And I talked to him, he's like, no, no. Every acre counts.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Chris MacLeod:You know, like, the. The world of food businesses purchasing, like, local food is, like, so minimal. And after running this for a few years, like, I understand it. It's a lot of work. Whether it's like, the inconsistencies of the product, to the amount of accounts that we're, like, writing checks for, to the amount of, like, delivery deliveries that we get in a week. Like, we don't get just like, one truck on Tuesdays. We get, like, a farmer this day, another farmer this day. Like, they're like minivans and Priuses and, like, random. They're just like personal cars, you know, and it's like choreography, you know, it's. We're trying to make this dance work, and it requires a lot of effort, but we, like, find the payoff and the connection. Connections. But it is easy to, like, think about how easy we can make our business and how, like, last year we probably spent both on ingredients and, like, the labor to clean or process them. Like, $40,000 more than if we just bought things from Cisco. And I think about that money going to our staff or, like, paying Tiff and I back for our investment and our time. And, like, I. I would love that, but at the same time, like, I wouldn't be happy working here. And like, there's days where I show up and I don't, like, do a whole lot. Like, I could go home, but, like, I'm just happy to be here.
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Chris MacLeod:And if were just getting, like, anonymous ingredients, this would just, like, feel different to me. And it wouldn't keep me coming. Like, wouldn't make me want to come back to work every day, except for the feeling of not wanting to fail.
Sam Bauman:Right, Right. So no second location in Launa's future.
Chris MacLeod:Correct.
Sam Bauman:But if you think 10 years down the line, are you kind of still doing what you're doing and loving it as much as you are, or do you see smaller changes coming?
Chris MacLeod:I think the essence of the bakery would be the same. We have, like, our own personal goals within this business. I volunteer at a few places with teenagers or young adults doing, like, baking classes or just talking about ingredients. And I've discovered that I really like working with young adults, and I would love to find a way to incorporate classes with different high schools, either here or me visiting them on, like, a more regular basis or as, like, a curriculum. And then we would also like to host classes here for anybody. There's a lot of interest in learning how to bake with whole grains, and I think people are just very scared of, like, trying it. I think people just, like, have lost the notion of, like, intuition, and they get a book, and they have to follow a recipe, and they don't know or feel comfortable of, like, switching white folks flour for whole wheat flour. And literally, that's all we do here, is, like, all of our recipes. Not all of them, but a lot of them. It's like we. We find inspiration or something, and we look at the recipe, and it's white flour, and we're like, okay, well, I think we want to, like, use rye and buckwheat, because we really like those. And it's a low gluten content. And also, like, the flavor profile is delicious. So we're gonna just switch the flowers and, like, switch, see how it comes out, and then we're going to make adjustments from there. But it's the same with most bakeries in the world. They just know white flour, and they know how to work with consistency, and they don't feel comfortable going into attempting to recreate something with a different grain that's also whole grain. I mean, it's just, like, they're trained into a mindset.
Sam Bauman:Right.
Chris MacLeod:And I didn't train specifically as, like, a baker. I. I learned from different bakeries I worked at, and I learned on my own experimentation and my own discovery of, like, eating sourdough bread or eating bread with whole grains and, like, learned that, like, bread is play. D'oh. You know, it's. It's our, like, for a long time, I had, like, an identity crisis of, like, being a baker, and I was talking with my therapist, and she's like, well, no, you are not a baker. You are a human that uses baking to express himself and to create art and to connect with community.
Sam Bauman:Ooh, I love that.
Chris MacLeod:Refresh, right? Yeah. And that is absolutely true. That's why we show up here I love touching the dough. I love shaping it. I feel connected with it. I've been making bread, which is our main bread, for about 10 years. There's been different changes with it, but, like, it is like my friend. Like, I touch it and I can, like, know, like, how it's fermenting. I can look at it and, like, that is a relationship I have. And so launa is a German word. It means mood or whim or vibe. And I studied abroad in college in Munich. And if a friend invited me to a party and I asked, what can I bring? The response I got was bring nordeina gutena, which means just bring your good vibes, which is just like, great. I love that. And when I was thinking about starting a business and, like, brainstorming a name for it, I was thinking guta launa bread. And I would write that and ask people. I was like, oh, I'd like, do people want to pronounce this? And so I would write that on paper and, like, nobody wanted to pronounce it or say that word, gutala. So then I shortened it to launa bread. But the whole thing behind it is, like, what we do here is a reflection of ourselves. And so, like, if I'm impatient, like, the bread is going to reflect that impatience, you know, it's going to be under fermented, or if I'm not paying attention or whatever my mood is, it's going to bake into that loaf of bread. And then this connection we create with, like, our customers is also like guten launa. You know, it's like seeing the joy of them getting this pastry or this loaf, or them talking about how they shared it with their neighbor or their family or how it reminds them of, like, their German or Polish grandmother. And so it's like just. I feel like what I'm trying to do or we are trying to do is something that reflects who we want to be as people.
Sam Bauman:Well, that also explains why you're willing to pay the extra money and sacrifice the time that it takes to source those local ingredients. Because it's not just about the end result product, which also is benefited by those choices, but it's just about what energy, what vibes you're putting into the world. What advice do you have for business owners or people thinking about starting a business.
Chris MacLeod:I am so thankful that I have a business partner. I have a friend who owns a bakery in California, and we talk sometimes and I'll give him advice, and he's like, yeah, but I don't have a tiff. He's like, tiff. You share everything with tiff or all your responsibilities. And I'm like, yeah, like, holding my heart. Yeah. Huh. I mean, it's definitely challenging. Like, there's nobody above you to take that responsibility after back. And so being able to share them and then, like, confide with somebody and brainstorm, like, how to, like, move on or move forward or whatever is really helpful. And, you know, like, we worked together a long time ago, and when I was living in Switzerland in 2017, she was, like, emotionally very available to me, and I was having a really hard time. And so, like, as a person, like I said, she has my back and she's there for me. And we work really well together. We have poop jokes. We share our lives together.
Sam Bauman:Poop friends. That's the thing, right? Yeah.
Chris MacLeod:And, you know, it's like, we'll be in the basement doing office work, but also it's like, how are you doing this week?
Sam Bauman:Yeah.
Chris MacLeod:You know, or, like, I notice, like, something's going on with you, like, because, like, it's hard to not bring your full self to work. And there are weeks where it's, like, challenging because as a business owner, like, Tiffer I are going through something, and it's like, it affects our staff, you know, and so. And because, you know, we exist as a hierarchical business, as owners and employees, in some instances, our staff are, like, you know, feel open to ask us, and often they do, but there's. There's still this, like, layer of, like, you know, bosses or managers and staff and not overstepping. And so it's, you know, as a business partner, being like, hey, tiff. Like, I see this thing that, like, your home is affecting everybody here. I'm not asking you to, like, change your experience, but, like, I want you to know, like, how can we support you so, like, that we aren't all, like, being dragged into, like, your emotions. Yeah, in a way. Because sometimes, like, you just don't know that, like, how you show up is actually infecting everybody.
Sam Bauman:Right.
Chris MacLeod:And so I would suggest everybody have a business partner.
Sam Bauman:Find yourself a tiff.
Chris MacLeod:Find a tiff. And then, I mean, having a therapist is, like, really helpful and having, like, some form of physical activity to do. I love running. And, like, running after work is really helpful for me to just, like, process my day and also just to think about bread. And then I recently started going to the gym because, like, this is a very physical job. I'm a tall person. I bend over. Like, my back is getting A little funky and so like, and I want to do this for a long time. That's why I also started this business is like, if I want to keep baking, I can't keep working at 1am so our early start time is 4 or 5am which to me is like very reasonable. It's still early, but like I want to keep doing this and so like doing like physical therapy is like a really important part of me feeling good and not feeling like I'm like my body is sacrificing itself.
Sam Bauman:Yeah, that's good advice. Just for life, I think. Take care of your body, take care of your mind, have good people around you. What business do you want to spotlight for us today?
Chris MacLeod:One of our partners that we work with is called the Briar Bar. They're in northeast Minneapolis and we really love the relationship we have with them. They make really delicious sandwiches and a soup and some other odds and ends. And you know, like we text with them and like double check like how the product is that we're baking for them and often we'll have a mistake and like they're flexible about it, you know, or we can be flexible with them. But I really just appreciate the like the food that they're making and the portion sizes and like you walk in there and it's a really comfortable space. But on top of that they do like community events. So like they'll do like a, like people will meet up to clean the neighborhood and then they do like host pop ups and have yoga and it just seems like a really nice like community space. And Abe and his team make delicious food and delicious drinks and are just like very warm people.
Sam Bauman:Amazing. We'll definitely have to check that out. Yeah, sounds great. Thank you so much for talking with me today, Chris. It's been really lovely. Lovely.
Chris MacLeod:Yeah. Thank you.
Sam Bauman:Thanks again to Chris MacLeod for a great conversation this week. You can find launa online@launabread.com that's L A U N E B R E a D and on Instagramownabread. Louna also offers weekly pre orders where you can order a loaf of bread and pick it up from one of several locations around Minneapolis and St. Paul. And they have monthly bread subscriptions, so make sure to check that out on. Their website as well. Since this is the last episode of our season, I also want to thank a couple of people that made this podcast possible. I'd like to thank Michael Castle and Jacob Brown for their guidance and advice on sound recording and for loaning us the equipment that helped make these conversations possible. I'd also like to thank Andy Bauman for his graphic design work and for helping us imagine what this podcast could become, and Adam Rondo for handling 100% of the production and editing and for coming up with this great idea in the first place. And don't worry, we won't be gone for too long. We're already lining up next season's guests, and we may even release some unique episodes in between seasons. Also, if you know a small business owner who you think would be a good fit for our podcast, please feel free to reach out. We would love to hear from you. Thanks and see you next time.
