Neighborhood Development Center: Shahir Ahmed

What happens when you trust entrepreneurs to know what their businesses actually need? In this special episode, host Sam Bauman sits down with Shahir Ahmed, Vice President of Business Services at Neighborhood Development Center (NDC), to explore the groundbreaking Minnesota Promise Act, a $72 million grant program providing flexible funding to businesses in historically disinvested communities.

Unlike previous programs, this one trusts business owners to make their own decisions, whether that's upgrading equipment, launching a marketing campaign, or anything else that will help them succeed.

Shahir, who was once a student in NDC's training program himself, candidly discusses the systemic barriers facing entrepreneurs, from language and cultural differences to being labeled "unbankable" by traditional lenders, and how NDC's approach of "character lending" wrapped in technical assistance has seen promising results. 

Throughout the conversation, one theme emerges: the small businesses NDC serves aren't just selling products or services, they're creating spaces for community connection, modeling what entrepreneurship looks like, and proving that place should not determine potential.

Guest Info

• Guest: Shahir Ahmed (he/him)
• Neighborhood Development Center (NDC) (Website • Instagram)
• MN PROMISE Act (Website • Instagram)

Other Links:

• Midtown Global Market
• MEDA
• Lake Street Council

Host & Show Info

• Host Name: Sam Bauman (she/her)
• About the Host: Sam is the President of Mellowlark Labs, a Twin Cities-based small business consulting agency. She has a masters degree in counseling psychology, a field she worked in for several years before applying her skills in business, and is certified in Organization Development.

Podcast Website

Sound Editing By: Adam Rondeau
Podcast Art By: Andy Bauman (website)

Transcript

Sam Bauman: 0:10

What's up, loyal fans? Welcome to the neighborhood. I'm Sam adam and this is not so Small. We have another really exciting special episode for you this week. I had the opportunity to speak with Shahir Ahmed, Vice President of Business Services at Neighborhood Development center, or ndc. NDC helps entrepreneurs build businesses in their communities by providing responsive and accessible training, business incubation, lending and business services. Recently, they also began administering a new state program called the Minnesota Promise Act. This program provides flexible grants and loans to small businesses in historically disinvested areas. What makes NDC and the Minnesota Promise act so different is that it trusts its entrepreneurs to know what their businesses need most, whether that's upgrading equipment, launching a marketing campaign, or something else entirely. Shahir talks with us about the unique ways that they are finding success in supporting entrepreneurs, why we as individuals should care about small local businesses and what we can do to show our support. I hope you enjoy our conversation. To start us off, you could just introduce yourself and briefly explain what your position is here at Neighborhood Development center and then tell me about the Minnesota Promise Act.

Shahir Ahmed: 1:26

Yeah. My name is Shahir Ahmed. I am Vice President of Business Services here at Neighborhood Development Center. I've been here as an employee within DC for just over nine and a half years, going on my 10 year next year. But I've been affiliated with NDC. I was a contractor before coming in as an employee. So I've been affiliated with NDC for 15, 16 years. I actually also before that I was a student in the class. So I've full circle, I've taken the class and now I'm here to provide resources to help remove obstacles for our staff so that they can continue to meet the entrepreneurs where they are. Our organization, as I mentioned, is a 30 plus year old organization and we do the four things, the four pillars that we call them. Our model really targeting low or extre, low income entrepreneurs who have a desire to work or do their business in the communities that they come from. That's really one of our core values as an organization is really building from within and helping them to create spaces or businesses that get at addressing systemic racism, systemic disinvestment into communities. When you think about Midtown Global Market, which is the longstanding Sears building that stood vacant for 20, almost 20 years after Sears left, the community of that neighbor came together and said we need to do something with this huge empty building. And that's when partners like the Ryan Company, Alina and then us as a community entity were able to come together to say how can we imagine this space to change the narrative of the neighborhood in a positive way? And economic mobility and opportunity is a way to do that. Right. So there's about 30 vendors there that have leases, they have legitimate businesses, but they see themselves as role models and leaders in the community to be able to invite as a destination place there to really help the neighborhood and change that narrative. And so that's the physical example of what we do. We've Provided in our 30 plus years, over 93 million doll in the work we're doing through the entrepreneur into community. Right. So that's within Minneapolis St. Paul. The work we're doing is bringing about that change. Several jobs, several business owners that are able to succeed due to our four pillar program. And so that's kind of who we are. And so when you think about that thing that happened, Covid, we all experienced and it was a moment in time as an organization that we said, whoa, okay, we never had done remote anything, no zoom, anything that wasn't on our radar. We really prided ourselves in high touch and really that one one personable relationship building and service delivery with our entrepreneurs. But when Covid happened, we threw our arms up and said, okay, what do we do now? And I remember we had about 30 staff. We're at about 45 now, but we had about 30 staff at the time. And we said, all right, everybody's going home. And so we had to figure out how to retrofit in the infrastructure that everybody needed to work from home. And at that time, if you recall, it was kind of March ish. We typically launch our spring class. And so we had about a hundred, I think it was about 80 some entrepreneurs who were ready to go in person learning. And we had to quickly pivot to get our staff trained, get the technology, get our trainers trained up, get our students prepared for online learning. So as you can imagine, it was a huge lift for us as an organization. But we learned, we prevailed. We feel that we had success with. Even though there was a lot of mystery and a lot of unknown and uncertainty that was going on at that time, were able to provide something that gave people they felt tethered to an opportunity. And that was what the class really does. It gives a platform where entrepreneurs can really take their ideas, take the ideation and really take the step to put that on paper, to really say, I have something here that I can tangibly work with and now access more services. And so were able to do that during COVID which we feel was a huge Success. And then the murder of George Floyd happened. And so we had another pause. It was another moment in time where we had to really introspect and look at ourselves as an organization and say, what do we do now? And we felt that moment were prepared for that moment in that Midtown Global Market is eight blocks away from George where George Floyd was murdered. There was due to civil unrest. There was many buildings and businesses that were destroyed. However, Midtown Global Market was not. It remained a beacon of light. And why? Because the owners of the businesses and the residents of the in the facility of midtown Global Market above the marketplace all came out during civil unrest and were locked arms and saying not here. Right. And so this opportunity, this model isn't as much as about your product or service. It's really about the relationships. Right. And so helping give entrepreneurs tools so that they can be more instructive and more of a resource to the community that their business exists in. So that's kind of what our model is about. So getting back to Promise Act. So Covid happened. Civil unrest happened in the state. START had four different programs in that. In that during that time, one being the PPP program. And unfortunately, the entrepreneurs that we serve and work with just were not ready. They were not ready, meaning their accounting bookkeeping practices just weren't at a sophistication that allowed them to access that opportunity.

Sam Bauman: 8:13

Just the barrier of the red tape.

Shahir Ahmed: 8:15

The barrier of the red tape, the barrier of the state not understanding on the ground what entrepreneurs needed. And that's just the facts. And so they got that right by then saying 2023 came along and we had a surplus at the time. And the state said, hey, led by Senator Bobby Joe Championed this bill to say, I think we know now what entrepreneurs need. And they tapped Rene Dossman, our CEO president on the shoulder. They had a great conversation. And the senator said, hey, I'd like for NDC to lead the grant portion of distributing $72 million to the entrepreneurs who were left behind from the previous state appropriated programs.

Sam Bauman: 9:11

So really part of what they needed was a community run initiative to be able to build those relationships and provide them the kind of support that they needed to be successful in addition to that capital.

Shahir Ahmed: 9:25

Exact. Exactly. And we work in partnership with the state agency, the deed state agency. So they're alongside us. They're actually who we are in contract with to administer the program. And they too are, were are of the opinion that this should be done in community. Right. The state should not be the entity actually deploying the dollars I think that's what they learned from the other programs. And so we alongside mita, the organization MITA here, located in north Minneapolis, they are responsible for the 24.6 million in loan dollars to go out and we're responsible for the $72 million for grants to go out within the Twin Cities here. And so what's important for us is doing, you know, Renee and I talked a lot about and so my role with Promise act is leading the director of the program. So really ushering and ensuring that we have, we're being good stewards of these resources. This is a unprecedented opportunity. The state has never done this in this magnitude before. And we have never done this before. Not on we've given grants, but we actually had to build a portal. So you know, on the tour we took, you got to see the Promise act team. You know, those folks are managing the actual portal that the application exists in. And so applicants can go to the portal to get the app, get connected to the application and submit their documents. And so it took us about nine months to build that portal. You know, were like, we're not a technology organization but we're going to figure it out. And so we've, we figured it out in round one. We launched June of 2024. We did some early data, we did some canvassing of of what we, who we thought would be eligible based. This act was enacted by law by Bobby Joe Champion. Champion was the co author, main co author and there was several others supporting him in legislation to get this bill passed in 2023. And then it, then we launched in 2024. We didn't, we looked at some numbers and we realized that even though $72 million sounds like a huge pot of resources, we saw that would with the numbers, the early data that would reach only about 20 to 25 to 30% of the eligible businesses. So we knew right away this was going to be very competitive. And so we had the challenge for us was how do we do this differently than the other programs? Because again, we know that who we work with, they were not able to access the previous program. So we wanted to do this differently. The state got it right in that they allow, they etched out portions of the appropriation to us for administration and technical assistance dollars so that we could hire the staff, create the portal and mainly provide technical assistance. And that's been the key of helping entrepreneurs really get prepared to apply for this opportunity.

Sam Bauman: 12:54

I want to talk a little bit more about kind of the underlying philosophical or moral imperative to create this program. You know, were talking when we arrived about how in our daily work at mellowlark, we are really passionate about supporting small businesses and supporting those community based efforts. And we just actually released an episode talking about what is the value of a small business in a community relative to some of the bigger corporations. And I'd love to hear from you as an expert in this space on, you know, what are some of those unique contributions that a small business can make to a community that a bigger corporation simply can't replicate?

Shahir Ahmed: 13:34

Yeah, the small businesses we serve are the backbone of the community. They come from the community. They already know many of their customers because they live and work with them and when they take the risk. Right. Because entrepreneurship is when those entrepreneurs take a risk. The honor we have is helping to provide tools so they can be successful. So when they're opening their doors, they're not only again selling a product or service, they're creating a space for community. And that is the value that your big boxes, we love them, but that's not part of their mission. Right. I mean, so what is important for us is to identify and support the potential that they have and help them tap and bring that out through training, through access to capital. Because that's a huge barrier. When you think about these folks that we serve that are called within this industry, they're known as unbankable. And so how do we help them become bankable? Through our programming, through our partnerships. We don't, you know, presume to be the all in all, but we, because everything we do is in partnership with other organizations because we, because this, this, the system that the entrepreneurs exist in is bigger than any one organization can solve for. And so, and you know, trying to ensure that the ecosystem is tethered and connected to provide those services. So they are the backbone, they are why we exist, the entrepreneurs. And they are the ones that are the resilient and we are honored to serve them.

Sam Bauman: 15:33

I'm noticing this parallel. You know, you talked about the importance of the relationships that you're building with the entrepreneurs that you work with. And what it sounds like is that those relationships that you build allow them to then turn around and build relationships with their community. And that is really the unique thing that they have to offer in the spaces that they exist in.

Shahir Ahmed: 15:56

Yeah. When you think about a barber for exist, for example, not only are we helping him with writing a business plan to, you know, understand how many chairs he should have in his shop. Right. But we're also helping encourage him think about himself as a role model. So when he has those young boys or young gals in his seat, in his chair, he's modeling what it could mean and look like to be a successful entrepreneur. That, that youth probably doesn't see those examples anywhere else within their, you know, within their day to day. Right. And so it's again, beyond the product and service, it's the modeling that the business owners have the opportunity to step into and that helps change the narrative of the neighborhood.

Sam Bauman: 16:55

As I've been thinking about our conversation, you know, I'm thinking about like the underlying principle of favoring, you know, these disadvantaged businesses or businesses that are experiencing financial hardship. And in some ways it's counter to a lot of the beliefs that we see in our broader culture where it's a bit of like a survival of the fittest mentality. So, you know, when you're talking to people about the reasoning behind that, what are some of the things that you share with them to help them understand why it's particularly important to support those businesses that are experiencing systemic disadvantage?

Shahir Ahmed: 17:33

Yeah, that's a big question. I'm not going to presume to have the answer for that. But what I can say through the work we're doing is it's really about them. It's a, both and it's, you do need to have a, you do need to identify your why you are, you're the why of why you're creating this business. Right. So, so looking at a competitor and having, taking a competitor analysis is important. Right. And so, but that shouldn't be the only reason that they are starting that business. Right. And so we try, for instance in our training, we really slow them down to think about how the relationships they're building their product through. Their product and service is not just serving the customer, but serving the broader community. And that sometimes is a challenge because they may have come in to the training opportunity with a particular disposition. And so it's through our curriculum we're able to slow them down and really unpack really important entrepreneurial principles that they can implement in accordance to their model, their business model. So it's taking the principles of successful entrepreneurship and presenting that within a community setting.

Sam Bauman: 19:08

What I really like about that is that you're, you know, playing the game in the sense of understanding the wider world that these businesses exist in, but you're also changing the game by building in to your curriculum some of these sort of different ways of thinking about what is the role of a business.

Shahir Ahmed: 19:27

Absolutely. And then in the class or when an applicant applies for a loan we're saying where do you want to do business? Business. Right. And, and then that gets them thinking about what's most important to me is.

Sam Bauman: 19:40

Who do you care about?

Shahir Ahmed: 19:41

Who do you care about? Right. And, and where is. Because it's about legacy too. Right. We're this you're not just opening for a year. You know, you really want to do something with this business. And so how do we help them find? Not find but how do we highlight the value of community and being rooted in community. And many, and many of the entrepreneurs who come through our classes for ex have an idea of where they want to place their business. So we consider ourselves as an organization that is place based. We follow the entrepreneur where they need to go. Some business models it is better to be out in a seven county metro area versus in on Lake Street. But 80% of the resources we provide are in targeted neighborhoods that have been based on the census data and archaic redlining practices these neighborhoods have been disinvested in. And so our role is to help entrepreneurs find the value in concentrating their business and working together to be that light within the neighborhood and the change within the neighborhood.

Sam Bauman: 20:59

Can you talk a little bit more about what those metrics are that you looked at to determine which neighborhoods to target with the Promise act funds?

Shahir Ahmed: 21:05

We didn't have to look far because it's pretty clear when you think about neighborhoods where I was born and raised in north Minneapolis, when you think about corridors like Broadway Avenue and the many abandoned or dilapidated or disinvested properties, you know that's an eyesore for community and that be that every day really it lends into it contributes to that blight and that hopelessness. I believe the core of an entrepreneur is to bring hope. That challenge for an entrepreneur is to say even though it's not a lot happening here, how can what I'm going to do be influential enough to not only bring commerce or business to this block or this area but also attract others who are like minded. And that's another big piece is we give them the tools about how tools and understanding of normal business practices but then the connecting and the networking with other like minded entrepreneurs so that they don't feel alone like they're on a deserted island.

Sam Bauman: 22:22

You mentioned earlier that being an entrepreneur is a risk and that's certainly true. And it also is an additional risk for the businesses that you're working with because of what you just Said there maybe moving into a neighborhood where there isn't already an audience available to them. They're having to build that audience and bring the energy and the reputation to that space where it didn't already exist.

Shahir Ahmed: 22:47

Yeah, and that's very difficult sometimes, but we have. We pride ourselves on really listening and trying to slow the entrepreneur down because, as you know, entrepreneurs need things yesterday. Right. And so part of our role is to slow them down, to say, okay, have you thought about this? And have you thought about that? And. And not to use. See failure as a detriment, but to see failure as a learning. And so having the certain programs. And for instance, when Covid happened, were listening to our entrepreneurs and were trying to figure out how to help support the individual. We were. We're not a social service entity, but we know that the entrepreneur is a person. And so how do we better. Covid helped us start to ask the question and listen to our entrepreneurs. How do we better serve you through the entrepreneur lens? So were able to develop a program that is now called Mindset Reset, where this is a program that brings about six entrepreneurs together in a small cohort for three to four weeks, where they're led by a practitioner who is a practicing counsel, a counselor or therapist who talks about the. Their. Their approach to money. Right. How do you approach money? How do you approach managing your business finances? How do you approach managing your staff? And how does that. How does that affect what happens at home? And so we bring in. We're learning better how to better address the whole person from an entrepreneurial lens. And we are hoping that approach will give them more confidence in the light of, you know, the external factors that are happening. For instance, you know, if they are losing contracts from a municipality, for example, that's a. But how do you diversify? Right. How do you take a moment to say, okay, I need to pivot and make sure that I'm still reaching my goals in a different way, but that slowing down the mindset and being able to be flexible is some of the things we've learned in trying to get in front of the entrepreneurs.

Sam Bauman: 25:17

I really love that. I mean, I think something we've heard a lot in our conversations with entrepreneurs is that they are so personally invested in the work that they're doing. And that is one of the beautiful things about a small business owner. And it's also one of the challenges as a small business owner, because you're always taking your work home with you, and you are the, you know, the end of the line for everything that happens. So I love that you're finding ways to more formally bring that into the conversation.

Shahir Ahmed: 25:48

Yeah. And we're listening to the entrepreneur. We're now realizing through the Promise act work that's about a year and a half old, that the financial acumen and the operations and wellness of the financial aspects of the business needs more attention. So Even in our 30 plus years, we realize we have not done enough and we need to go deeper. And so Promise act, when we looked at our first early data, were able to distribute of the $72 million, were able to distribute just under 10 million to about 650 businesses. We had over 6,000 applications come through the door. All those weren't eligible, about half. So we had about 3,300 that were eligible. So you take 3,300 and you're awarding six. That's a big gap. And so why we're not folks taking advantage of this. So we started to ask the question and dig into what the obstacle was and the barrier and it's the finances.

Sam Bauman: 27:00

Yeah.

Shahir Ahmed: 27:00

The lack or the lack of and, or the taxes. And so we are now going to be rolling out initiatives in 2026 that really double down and dig into the financial wellness of the entrepreneur.

Sam Bauman: 27:18

You mentioned the word unbankable earlier. Can you talk a little bit more about what some of those systemic barriers are for businesses trying to access loans via more traditional routes?

Shahir Ahmed: 27:28

Yeah, it is very difficult. If you are an immigrant, refugee, a person of color, it is very difficult to go into your conventional banking institution as a startup to get a loan. Very difficult. However, the CDFI industry, which is, we are, we have that federal certification which is, it's the, it allows us to lend dollars like a bank. This industry exists for that exact reason, to take more risk. And so if you look at lending as a ladder, your conventional lenders are on the top rung and NDC and other CDFIs are on the bottom. And our goal is not to replace the tradition banking. That's not our goal. Our goal is to build the capacity of the entrepreneur so one day they become bankable. And we do that through our training. We do that through our access to capital. We lend over up to $250,000 to entrepreneurs. Our average loan size is about 40,000. So that 40,000 that they are not able to get from a conventional lender gives them the opportunity to invest in this idea that they, that otherwise they likely do not have a relative or a parent that has being able to entrust them with do. Right. So they are bootstrapping. Right. Their resources. And so we are in most cases the only or last opportunity for them to receive dollars to start a business.

Sam Bauman: 29:02

So is the risk greater lending funds to disadvantaged businesses or is that purely a result of systemic rules that have developed over time?

Shahir Ahmed: 29:13

It's a both. And there are inherent risks to entrepreneurship. So that is. That can't be right. We can't gloss over that. But it's even added on to the entrepreneurs that look like me. Yeah, right. It's added on. It's an added barrier. So our programming is designed to help address that and our partnerships with other organizations is to help insulate and support the entrepreneurs so that they can navigate through the red tape or the regulatory needs. So let's say if I love to make burgers and I'm going to do a burger joint and I don't know anything about running a business, I just know how to. I know my burgers taste great. I still need to have, I need to connect with the city, you know, the fda. I need to connect, I need to be licensed. And if I had and if I don't have a positive experience personally historically in the city that I'm looking to do business with, that makes it very difficult and apprehend. I become apprehensive. But the way we work and our partners is to equip the. And reinforce the confidence that no, even though I'm going to do this burger joint, I can navigate the regulatory systems. It's not a behemoth, it's there to serve you if we have the right tools to access it. And so that's kind of what we're. The challenge is it's a risk taking a business no matter if you're three, I mean whoever.

Sam Bauman: 30:53

Right.

Shahir Ahmed: 30:53

Any big box or this. But it's an added, it's added obstacles upon layer if I speak a different language or have a systemic negative experience with municipality, for example.

Sam Bauman: 31:06

Well, and I do think that the other services and supports that you're providing these entrepreneurs is essentially mitigating your risk in a way. Because you know what might become a non starter for somebody wanting to begin a burger joint because they can't figure out the licensing stuff now is not a barrier anymore. And so that those funds that they've loaned are more likely to be paid back.

Shahir Ahmed: 31:30

Correct? Absolutely. And so we consider ourselves a character lender in comparison on that ladder we look at the character. So did you take our class? What's your business model? Where are you going to put that business that speaks to the character of the entrepreneur. And so we want to support that. There's something else you said that I lost it. But so we're a character lender and that's what's important for us. Yeah.

Sam Bauman: 31:56

Can you give me some more examples of some of the specific systemic barriers that the entrepreneurs you work with are encountering in addition to not being able to go to a traditional lender?

Shahir Ahmed: 32:09

Yeah. Language is a barrier. Religious or cultural practices is a barrier. Having had negative interaction with city officials or municipalities, learning is, you know, reading and writing. You would be surprised how many entrepreneurs come to our doors or to our training that have that their reading level is on a level that we need to meet them there. Right. And so I think our curriculum right now is at a 11th grade level reading level, but we've not. We've revised that to a fifth grade reading level for certain classes. Right. Just because we know that we have to meet the entrepreneurs where they are. So language and barrier and culture. And then there's also the barrier of just knowing what business is and what business is not dispelling the myth of what entrepreneurship is. We have on average, 10 students per class. Two of them will complete the class, meaning they're ready to go with a business plan in hand and ready to access more resources or get their business. So those other three or the other seven of the seven three are going to come back in a year or two, either with a new idea or refinement of that original idea, and then the others kind of drift off. So we see success as not only writing the business plan through the training, but also retaining and getting the information so that they're able to make better decisions as they go on through their journey, whether they decide to be an entrepreneur or not.

Sam Bauman: 34:01

Not just the specific business plan for that idea, but the skills to do it.

Shahir Ahmed: 34:05

Correct.

Sam Bauman: 34:06

Forward.

Shahir Ahmed: 34:06

Correct. And now I remember what I was going to say in the latter. And the capacity building we do is that it's important for us to make sure that the entrepreneurs have their. We use technical assistance as a risk mitigation. So what does that mean? Your conventional lenders will look at the seven Cs of lending primarily credit. If your credit score is at A is below your. Thank you. Maybe down. But we look at the seven Cs, but we look at character. Right. I talked about. But then we wrap the entrepreneur with technical assistance. Right. To give them that support. Because if I'm doing burgers, I don't know about QuickBooks. Right. I know I can. My burger tastes great.

Sam Bauman: 34:53

That's it.

Shahir Ahmed: 34:54

So the technical assistance gives me those tools so that I can build my capacity to make better decisions. And as I am more successful in making sales, then I can eventually purchase those services in the marketplace so that I can continue on so that we can use those technical services to the next entrepreneur. So our risk rate, I think, is about two and a half percent, and that's huge when you think about compared to the conventional lenders. But it's because of the technical assistance that we wrap around with the loan to help not only pay the loan back, because we want those dollars back so the next entrepreneur, so we can keep going.

Sam Bauman: 35:38

Right.

Shahir Ahmed: 35:38

But it's also. It's empowering the entrepreneur with the skills that they didn't have.

Sam Bauman: 35:45

It's more sustainable.

Shahir Ahmed: 35:46

It's more sustainable, absolutely.

Sam Bauman: 35:49

You talked about George Floyd's murder earlier and the impact that had on that neighborhood and that community. And obviously it's been years since that happened. But what are some of the lasting effects of that kind of civil unrest on the community that exists there?

Shahir Ahmed: 36:04

Yeah, I think what I'm hearing the most of is it's difficult to get traffic to come to that area. And we are experiencing that as well. Eight blocks away at Midtown Global Market on Lake street, the civil unrest really was a ripple effect that has not allowed the volume and traffic to return as the numbers were previous to Covid and civil unrest. And so that's the main challenge is traffic. And the businesses owners are there. They're taking the risk to keep their doors open, but they need traffic. So that's the most. And so we don't have a silver bullet for that. Like we. But so it's working with city. It's working to make sure that the area is favorable to traffic. You know, so there's all of the things that the conversations are happening that are part of the solution to move the needle so that folks in George Ford Square, those entrepreneurs can have feel better about the support from the city, for example, and other organizations like ours to help them have a chance.

Sam Bauman: 37:19

Well, and it's like you said, when you have a systemic problem, it needs a systemic solution. So ndc, the Promise act, is one of the. Of the many components it needs to go into.

Shahir Ahmed: 37:30

It's an ecosystem. Yeah, it's a true ecosystem. And you know, we understand that and we understand our role and we, through our programming, help the entrepreneur to canvas and scan all the resources they need and be confident to engage with municipality, be confident to call your Legislator, you know, get on the phone, you are a business owner, you pay taxes, they work for you. And so it's the changing the narrative and reframing the power and responsibility. What is it, Spider Man? With great responsibility comes great. With great power comes great. Right. So we're helping them understand that you're not just selling a product or service. You have a platform to be a cog in the will of solutions.

Sam Bauman: 38:23

Yeah. What has been one of the challenges of administering this program?

Shahir Ahmed: 38:28

Yeah. Back to Promise Act. Okay, so how long do you have? No, the round, first round. We learned a lot. There was, and this is public and so, and so the, the legislation and the state and us being the third wheel in that wagon, there was just some, it took us time to make sure we interpreted the law correctly. Okay. So and who was eligible. So we got that figured out well after we started and it was like, well, I think we should have done this before. But we, the state and the legislators worked diligently to make sure the interpretation was solid. So we got that figured out. That was a hurdle. Technology was somewhat of a hurdle. Again, we're not a technology company, so we don't know what we don't know, but we understand it's an application, it's not rocket science. But how do we ensure. Because another barrier I forgot to mention for entrepreneurs is technology. And so how do we help make sure that they can use their phone to do everything they need? Because many of our entrepreneurs use their phone for business. So that was a challenge to make sure we can meet them where they are. So second round, now that we're open, we just opened the second round, I believe in September. A challenge now is we're learning that many entrepreneurs are fatigued. There's a lot happening within society. There's things that are unknown. And so for us we're experiencing a low volume of applications, not a low volume of engagement with that, with the website. People are coming to the website, they're taking the quiz to see if you're. Am I eligible? That's a tool for empowerment. You take, you know, you have control to see if I'm eligible. We have positioned in person and virtual technical assistance support. So if you need support to complete your application, you can go on a website, sign up for a date and we got one one support for you. We've got information sessions that are happening in community with our partners with legislate with municipality. So we're getting the word out as much as possible. But people I, we believe are just fatigued yeah, because of so many things happening and we're scratching our heads like, this is money for you. You know, and it's about 30 questions. You know, many of them are yes and no. But. But again, a hurdle that we learned from the first round was folks having their taxes and financials in order to apply. So those are some of the things we're learning. I think the data was about 87% of the applicants last round needed technical assistance. So we're happy that we had that allotment from the state, but it's not enough. Yeah, it's not enough.

Sam Bauman: 41:37

This is such an incredible program and NDC is doing so much also around this program to support small businesses. And, you know, a lot of our listeners on this podcast are either small business owners themselves or people who are passionate about supporting small businesses. So I'm curious to hear from you. You know, what are the ways that the average person can support a small business in addition to obviously being a consumer of their products?

Shahir Ahmed: 42:01

Yeah, I mean, that was the first. I mean, just go, go patiently go in to and really support them that way. I think that's the most powerful way and we can't gloss over that. I think getting involved with an organization like ndc, mida, Neon Lake Street Council, these organizations that have been that have the relationships with entrepreneurs and the entrepreneurs turn to us for answers and solutions. Come help us do this work. Whether that's volunteering your dollars, we will take your dollars, please. We need as many resources as possible because we. The lights aren't. We got to keep the lights on. And so those are some ways that I think that are tried and true opportunities for listeners to think about how to get engaged.

Sam Bauman: 42:49

What do you want our listeners to know or understand about why a program like Promise act and an organization like NDC matters in our community, in our broader society?

Shahir Ahmed: 43:02

Yeah, I mean, again, it's about, well, place should not determine potential. And so we can look at these disinvested areas. And we know that was a part of a plan or a program or it was systemic. So if we're going to address that, we need concentrated effort. And so we believe that comes from within. And so being able to help the entrepreneur build that capacity, build that confidence, connect with resources, connect with organizations and keep their doors open to be that place for people to come in and be supported.

Sam Bauman: 43:44

Can you share a story of success that you've had with the Promise Act?

Shahir Ahmed: 43:48

Absolutely. A gentleman who is a contractor was really not able to due to Covid. He was not his sales were down, getting contracts were down and he wasn't really able to figure out how to reach the audience he needed. And so he applied for Promise Act. Mr. Michael Atlas applied for Promise act and was rewarded dollars to then get his market social media campaign going. So now he's able to really find the right job opportunities for his business. And so that's a huge success. We feel that the state, the legislators understood that these dollars needed to be flexible working capital dollars so that the entrepreneur trusting the entrepreneur to make the decision on what they need best for their business. And Mr. Atlas is an example of that, of I need customers and so how can I use these dollars to find those customers in a virtual way is how he applied to that. Other examples are all washed up Laundromat in north Minneapolis. She was able to buy more sophisticated washer machines that could wash the clothes faster and more economic.

Sam Bauman: 45:17

More efficient.

Shahir Ahmed: 45:17

More efficient. That's what I was going for the green more efficient. So these are stories and opportunities that again, the entrepreneurs know what they need. The Promise act is giving them that is making that connection. And we're in alignment right now.

Sam Bauman: 45:32

That really feels special. I mean you've talked about really listening to the business owners and I think a lot of times what we see with programs designed to help disadvantaged communities is there's not enough listening to the people that the program is trying to support.

Shahir Ahmed: 45:48

Well, the entrepreneur and I know we're done, but the entrepreneurs, they have already in them what it takes to be.

Sam Bauman: 45:55

Yes.

Shahir Ahmed: 45:55

They've just been told different things. And so our job is to say no, you've got it and here's the tools to do it.

Sam Bauman: 46:03

How powerful that just that belief in a person's capability can be what they need to be successful.

Shahir Ahmed: 46:09

Absolutely. They already have it.

Sam Bauman: 46:10

Absolutely. Is there anything else that you want to share today that we haven't covered? I think this has been so amazing just hearing about all of the great things that you're doing.

Shahir Ahmed: 46:20

Yeah. If you are a business owner and your business is in. In one of the geographies for Promise act, we. I encourage you to apply. The state has done a great thing. They've put this program now in the base budget, which means that it's going to continue on.

Sam Bauman: 46:38

Oh wow.

Shahir Ahmed: 46:39

They didn't put dollars there yet, but that's the step in the right direction. They believe in it now. Right. The state believes in this, in get in reaching entrepreneurs in this way. And so that's. We think that's great that the state took that, that risk.

Sam Bauman: 46:55

Yeah, it's a vote of confidence.

Shahir Ahmed: 46:56

It's a vote of confidence. And, and it tells the entrepreneur that the state is serious about the support that you need as an entrepreneur. So hopefully that's an encouragement to entrepreneurs to be more, to advocate more for their business with their legislators.

Sam Bauman: 47:14

Thank you so much for agreeing to meet with us. It's been a lovely conversation.

Shahir Ahmed: 47:18

Melissa's honor for me.

Sam Bauman: 47:25

Thanks again to Shahir for representing and discussing NDC and the Minnesota Promise act with me. If you want to learn more about NDC or send them a donation, you can find them online at ndc-mn.org or on Instagram @ndcminnesota. The Minnesota Promise act also has its own website, mnpromiseact.org and is also on Instagram, mnpromiseact. The Promise act gives entrepreneurs flexible funding because they trust business owners to know what they actually need. We couldn't agree more. If you're looking for business support that meets you where you're at, instead of handing you a one size fits all playbook, we might be your people. Check us out@mellolark.com and send us a message if you want to chat. Thank you so much for listening today. If you like the podcast, drop us a review view, then follow us on Instagram at mellowlark to get updates for new episodes. See you later.