Fair Anita: Joy McBrien

In this episode of Not So Small, hosts Sam Bauman and Adam Rondeau sit down with Joy McBrien, founder of Fair Anita, a social enterprise partnering with 8,000 women artisans across nine countries to create handcrafted jewelry, gifts, and accessories.

Joy talks about why she chose to structure Fair Anita as a for-profit public benefit corporation, how she's reimagining supply chains as communities rather than transactions, and what it means to prioritize people over profit. The conversation explores the real challenges of running a values-driven business, from cash flow struggles to staying committed to what matters most.

Joy reflects on building a business rooted in collaboration and co-design, where artisan partners bring their own expertise, innovation, and genius to every aspect of the work. She shares how Fair Anita operates on genuine partnership rather than charity, and how starting from shared experiences created opportunities for mutual healing and community building.

This episode explores what it looks like to run a business where supply chains are communities, not transactions, and how staying committed to those values shapes everything from product design to how success is measured.

Guest Info:
Fair Anita (Website | Instagram)

Community Spotlights:
Global Mamas (Website | Instagram)
Vetiera Fair Trade (Website | Instagram)

Host & Show Info

• Host Name: Sam Bauman (she/her)
• About the Host: Sam is the President of Mellowlark Labs, a Twin Cities-based small business consulting agency. She has a masters degree in counseling psychology, a field she worked in for several years before applying her skills in business, and is certified in Organization Development.

Podcast Website

Sound Editing By: Adam Rondeau
Podcast Art By: Andy Bauman (website)

Transcript

Sam Bauman: 0:10

Hey, lovely listeners, and welcome to the neighborhood. I'm Sam Bauman.

Adam Rondeau: 0:13

And I'm Adam Rondeau.

Sam Bauman: 0:14

And this is not so small. Today we're talking with Joy McBrien, owner of Fair Anita. Joy started Fair Anita over 10 years ago as a social enterprise built on collaboration, partnering with 8,000 women across nine countries who create handcrafted jewelry while earning two to four times minimum wage plus benefits. What makes Fair Anita different isn't just fair wages. It's the recognition that these artisan communities bring their own expertise, creativity and power to the table. In our conversation, Joy talks about why she chose to structure Fair Anita as a for profit public benefit corporation, how she's reimagining supply chains as communities rather than transactions, and the benefits of prioritizing people over profit. Joy is cultivating a space that shows that values driven businesses can create ripples of healing and connection that transform entire communities. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Could you just start by introducing yourself and telling us where we are and what your business is?

Joy McBrien: 1:18

Yes, My name is Joy McBrien. This is Fair Anita. So we're a social enterprise. We partner with about 8,000 women in nine countries, primarily survivors of sexual or domestic violence, to create cute, ethical, affordable jewelry, gifts, and accessories.

Sam Bauman: 1:35

Amazing. So I think you actually captured a lot of what I would imagine the answer to my next question is in just that little summary. But tell me more about the problem that you set out to solve when you started this business. Business.

Joy McBrien: 1:48

Yeah, so I started Fair Anita back in 2015. We were actually one of the first public benefit corporations in the state of Minnesota, which was really fun. And honestly, I started because of, I mean, a number of things, but a big driver for me was I have a history of rape and sexual violence, and I wanted to create community and try to, like, how do we. How can we create situations so that we can all, like, thrive together? Like, how can I, yeah, really build. Build community? And so ultimately, we're working, like I said, with women all over the world. We pay two to four times minimum wage, plus health insurance, educational scholarships, all sorts of good stuff. And I learned that the main reason why women stay in abusive partnerships is. Is because of financial insecurity. And so the goal was really, how do we create financial security for women, especially so that they can make the decisions that are best for themselves and their own lives. And, yeah, it's really been. There's just been so many beautiful partnerships that have been formed as a result. And, yeah, just getting to collaborate with each other in the supply chains. And all of that, I think also just kind of reimagining how some supply chains can work and how we can center makers and ethics and I mean, really just trying to build a business in a way that is like good for the planet and good for people and what could that look like? And yeah, it's been fun. When I was my early 20s, I think especially I was like really interested in more fair trade products or sustainably made things. And I had the passion for it, but I wasn't seeing a lot of the product in the marketplace. That felt like it was something that I would naturally gravitate towards. It felt like something like maybe that was for my grandma said with all the love in the world, she's my favorite. And so I was kind of like, okay, how can we collaborate on design and sustainability? Like, what are some fun recycled materials we can use? What are some of the generational skill sets that you may have in these different areas to be able to create products? How do we collaborate in these supply chains? And yeah, so we do a lot of co designing, co working co, all that stuff. It's been good. It's been good.

Sam Bauman: 4:25

That's amazing. Tell me what a public benefit corporation is.

Joy McBrien: 4:30

Oh, yeah. So ultimately our mission statement is like written into our incorporation documents. And that means that we have a commitment to that mission statement even more so than we do to any other like stakeholders or anything like that. So to me it was really important support so that you knew weren't just saying that were doing the things, but like, nope. Legally, it's all buttoned up in a way that should. Yeah. Make our customers feel confident and that we're doing what we're saying we're doing. But then also provided a level of security and almost like a safety net for our artisan partners as well.

Sam Bauman: 5:16

What are some of the details of that mission that play out in the way that you run your business and supporting sustainability and ethical partnerships?

Joy McBrien: 5:25

Yeah, I think a lot about economic self sufficiency. And if were running a business in a more traditional way, I think especially in today's day and age with.

Sam Bauman: 5:42

All the fun tariffs and.

Joy McBrien: 5:47

Like, what can I say that you'll need to edit out?

Sam Bauman: 5:56

Yeah.

Joy McBrien: 5:56

But thinking about economic self sufficiency for our makers especially, and prioritizing that. So we work with 19 different cooperatives across the nine different countries. I always make sure that we have bestsellers coming from each cooperative. So it's not just as a business we're chasing the profitability or the best sellers we're making sure that we're prioritizing each group and their livelihoods and their full humanity within that. Does that make sense?

Sam Bauman: 6:28

Absolutely. Now the obvious next question in my mind is how do you do that while also keeping your business financially sustainable?

Joy McBrien: 6:38

Yeah, yeah, it's been challenging. Cash flow has been, I mean, our number one challenge as an organization. Ultimately we are a fair trade verified business. And so one thing that we do is we pay artisans up front. So 50 to 100% up front. And so we might pay artisans in February for product that we're not selling until October. And that's very different than a traditional retail model which, you know, they would put their order in for their product and then they would have, you know, after they receive the product, they might even have up to like 120 days to pay those makers. But when we're working in more marginalized communities, that's just not a reality. And so we're almost serving as like a micro lender at the same time to our talented partners. But it does make cash flow a lot more challenging. So luckily we've been able to balance our business between wholesale and retail. That's been a big helper for us. The Twin Cities community here has been tremendous. We do a lot of different pop up events all over the Twin Cities and that's been a fun way to grow our reach and have people actually touch the product and try things on and give feedback and all that kind of good stuff. But then at the same time, we're selling wholesale right now. We sell to about 1600 stores, mainly across the U.S. but all over the place. A lot of really great museums. We do like custom work. Like anyone who really wants to have their values represented in their store, we're able to, I think, be a good partner for them in that. And so it's been able to help balance out cash flow ultimately.

Sam Bauman: 8:23

Yeah. So you've been able to sort of diversify the ways that you're selling your products in order to combat some of the challenges.

Joy McBrien: 8:34

Absolutely. Yep. And then we also have to make sure pricing across all the different artisan partners, like I don't want one group like dramatically outselling the other groups. We want to make sure that again, that we have real sustainable work for the artisans all over the place. So sometimes, you know, our margins on some products might be a little bit higher than on others. Just so that we're making sure that things are moving and feeling good to everybody.

Adam Rondeau: 9:02

Yeah. I think I saw on the, on your website that you're a part of The Museum Store Association. That seems like you had mentioned earlier that you're in museum stores. That seems like a really helpful thing for combating some of that cash flow problem.

Joy McBrien: 9:20

Yeah.

Adam Rondeau: 9:20

Are there other organ? How is that? I guess first, how has that relationship been?

Joy McBrien: 9:24

We love museums. They're so good. At first I was like, why would museums want to carry our product? And now I'm like, oh my gosh, they're my favorite. Like I think especially in this day and age when DEI stuff is under attack, we're a queer owned business. That's me. And you know, people can put their money where their mouth is and like, you know, support again, their values in a pretty tangible way there. And so, yeah, we've been able to collaborate in a lot of really fun ways. Especially like if people have an exhibit on African art or something like that, then like we can complement that in.

Adam Rondeau: 10:04

The gift shop with art authentically from that area, Africa or wherever.

Joy McBrien: 10:12

Yeah. From the different communities that we work in. And so, yeah, it's been fun to be a part of the collaborations. And we do a lot of custom pieces for them as well. A lot of quote cuffs with artists, quotes and different things. It's great. Yeah. So Museum Store association has been huge for us also. They have really good dance parties. So I mean, that's a side note, but wow. You know, that incentivizes me. But yeah, we're also members of the Fair Trade Federation and that's been huge. I was actually president of the board for quite a while. And so it's been really helpful to have other, yeah, Fair trade enterprises that have these same values and are willing to think about business in a different way and in a way that doesn't compromise their values? So how else can we think about these problems in a way that's still, you know, there's a part of our business that we're not touching. You know, like we're not, we're not going to be exploiting anybody that we work with. Just, period.

Sam Bauman: 11:22

Yeah, yeah. Something I'm thinking about is a conversation that came up with Taylor from Evergreen who referred you to us. I love Taylor. And she was talking about her challenge with helping consumers understand the difference between truly green products and sort of green washed products. And I think for me as a consumer, you know, I see something like a Fair trade emblem on a product and I don't really know what that means organic or, you know, whatever it may be is that, you know, I'm not sure is That a robust, you know, vetting process, or is that just sort of like an easy label that some company decided to create? So how do you manage that, and what do those certifications mean to you?

Joy McBrien: 12:05

Yeah, it's fair that it's confusing to the ultimate consumer, because it's confusing even when you're very deeply embedded in the world too. There are a number of different certifications or verification processes. Some are ultimately just verifying one small part of your production. And so there's. There are certain logos.

Sam Bauman: 12:35

How do I be diplomatic?

Joy McBrien: 12:37

Yes, there are certain logos that I'm, like, excited that at least part of it is fair trade. You know, like, great. But if I'm looking at where am I gonna buy holiday presents from? I'm gonna look at ones especially that are verified through the Fair Trade Federation or the World Fair Trade Organization. It's a much more robust process that really looks at the full extent of the supply chain in a way that I feel really good about. But, yeah, it is confusing. There's a lot of logos, and, I mean, but if they have any logo, I feel better about it than just people saying, oh, it's fair trade, or, oh, it's sustainable. And it's tricky because those are things that are resonating with customers. Fair trade, maybe not quite as much. That's more probably in the coffee chocolate space. So we talk about it in terms of, like, being ethically handcrafted, trying to just, like, simplify it a little bit. Especially because a lot of times people will confuse fair trade and free trade, and ultimately, they're like, pretty dramatic opposites. Yeah, I don't know.

Sam Bauman: 13:55

Well, it seems like having those values so fundamentally present in your business is another way to speak to consumers more directly about what it means to be a fair trade certified business. Because you're not just putting the stamp on your website. It's also pretty integral to your identity.

Joy McBrien: 14:14

Absolutely, absolutely. And the transparency is just, like, baked into what we're doing. So if customers want to know who made this product, I can very quickly tell you this was Sunita out of New Delhi, or this was Ana out of Santiago, Chile. It's real. So therefore we can speak to it.

Sam Bauman: 14:38

Yeah. So you're coming up on 10 years, or maybe you've passed 10 years over 10 years. That's a long time.

Joy McBrien: 14:46

Yeah.

Sam Bauman: 14:47

Weird. Since starting your business, can you think of a moment or a decision that felt like a really big risk? I mean, obviously starting a business in general is a big risk, but in this time that you've been running the business. Are there particular things that jump out to you?

Joy McBrien: 15:06

Yeah, probably a few things. First, I think was just bringing on any additional employee, you know, just like, this has been my baby, you know, and just, like, trusting somebody else with that. But that was, of course, continues to be just the best decision because then there's. There's more love and more, you know, more of all of it, which is great. Yeah, I think about that. And also, when I started the business, at first I was only going to be selling retail, and so it was a pretty big leap when I decided to sell wholesale. And I didn't understand, really. I mean, I didn't understand the complexities of selling in that way. But thank goodness we got there because, yeah, it's been the bread and butter of our business, I think also, yeah, we ship all of our products in reused packaging. And so you might get your Fair order in like a.

Sam Bauman: 16:10

I don't know.

Joy McBrien: 16:10

A diaper box or an Amazon bubble mailer or, you know, whatever. Luckily, we actually haven't had to buy packaging ever, because our community is so great. And they're like, we got all these bubble mailers. I'll just save them up and drop them off every once in a while. But, yeah, I mean, that feels weirdly risky in its own way to, like. I mean, ultimately, I'm putting Amazon's logo out there right next to mine, which has, yeah. Different ethics associated with it. And so, yeah, that feels like a risk to me.

Sam Bauman: 16:43

Yeah. And it's. It certainly sort of flies in the face of sort of standard marketing protocols in our culture. Right. You sort of think about, like, everything has to match and be pretty and intentional with design, and there's a lot of power in that. But of course, when you're making those decisions, you are sacrificing some of the sustainability that's so important to you.

Joy McBrien: 17:06

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Adam Rondeau: 17:09

And in a way, it sort of becomes its own aesthetic, though, too, I think. You know, businesses that are making decisions like the ones that you're making, you know, I would imagine that the people that are engaging with Fair Anita are sort of like a little smirk washes across their face when it does come in an Amazon mailer, because it's like, oh, cool. I know that this is just getting more use than the one use that it so often does when something's mailed from Amazon.

Sam Bauman: 17:36

Ha ha. Amazon's paying for your packaging.

Adam Rondeau: 17:37

Yeah, in a way. Right. That's like. That's a very fun angle.

Joy McBrien: 17:42

Well, and they just. They sit in landfills Forever. Like, it's so disgusting. And I'm like, the number of bubble mailers coming from one single organization, it's. I mean, it literally makes me feel nauseous just, you know, thinking about it. And, you know, I'm continually impressed by the way that I think especially small businesses show up in the sustainability space and are like, willing to tackle some of those larger issues in ways that, I mean, I believe some of those larger organizations should be doing that work. Right. We also, most of our product comes to us from our artisan partners, either in reused little plastic bags because ultimately, in order to export from certain countries, they have to be individual clear plastic, whatever. We wouldn't do that if it wasn't legally required. But when we reuse them over and over again, or we have these little bags that are made from cornstarch so they're fully biodegradable. And I'm always like, it's pretty cool that we're working with these women in rural India who are prioritizing that and who have figured out the solution in a way that, yeah, I believe larger businesses should be doing the same or leading that charge.

Adam Rondeau: 19:01

Yeah. Is some of what you're saying, like, here are people that do not have the vast resources that some of these major corporations have that are deciding to take that action. When these, you know, again, organizations with vast, like, resources are like, well, unless you can prove that it's going to make my bottom line move in a way that I want to, I'm not making that change.

Joy McBrien: 19:25

Yeah. If it's $0.02 more expensive, that's $0.02 too many, you know, but also, like, if larger organizations were doing it, I mean, it would make a huge environmental impact, but it would also make it less expensive for small businesses to do it too. So, yeah, I feel like often it's small businesses that are leading a lot of the charge there.

Sam Bauman: 19:49

I want to go back to something you said about hiring employees, because I'm thinking about how oftentimes we see that a small business owner is really intimately involved in the work. They're very hands on. If it's a, a retail store, they're the one behind the counter a lot of the times, especially in the early days. And yet also we see that a lot of small business owners are really dedicated to community. And so bringing in employees is this interesting kind of juxtaposition where you want to grow your community and that means bringing more people into this project. And also it's so special and close to your heart that it can feel Hard to let go of that. So just elaborate a little on your experience of hiring people and how you let go of some of that control to get yourself to a place where now you feel excited about that.

Joy McBrien: 20:41

Yeah, yeah. I mean, teams make everything great, you know, and I've. Yeah, I just quickly learned that the more people that are. That are a part of the mission, the larger it can become and the more impact we can make. But, yeah, it was. It was challenging at first, I think, especially because I started the business based on my own trauma history. And so it felt really deeply personal. And then also, like, building these relationships with artisan partners based on this, like, really intimate shared trauma. Yeah, it was hard for me to envision, like, how do I bring other people into this in a way that feels genuine? And yeah, I think we've been really lucky in that we've been able to find again, like, values aligned people who, you know, bring their strengths in different areas, especially in ones that I'm not good at, you know, like, I can maintain our artisan relationships because that's like the most important thing to me. Sales, not really my thing, which is unfortunate when you run a business that.

Sam Bauman: 21:52

Yeah.

Joy McBrien: 21:54

So, you know, I've got great people that do that, and then we're able to. It just feels like an extension of the supply chain as a whole, you know, like, I don't want to be working with just one artisan abroad or whatever. Also, like, they have this really beautiful, thriving community of women who get together and laugh and, you know, are co creating, and I want it to be the same on our end. And then we're all one big happy supply chain.

Sam Bauman: 22:22

Imagine if some of these big organizations thought about supply chains as communities. I mean, that would be so revolutionary in the way that they ran their business. Because I love that you're bringing it to that place. Like, these are not transactions, these are relationships. Yeah. That is huge.

Joy McBrien: 22:42

Yeah. Yeah. That's what our whole business is based on. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's. That's the part I'm just really not willing to compromise.

Sam Bauman: 22:50

Yeah.

Adam Rondeau: 22:51

That's why we're so excited to be here talking to you today. Really. I mean, that's what we hope to do anytime we're talking to somebody for this podcast is find people that feel this strongly about things like that it's bringing change to the. The spaces of our lives where change is very much needed. So I guess I'll just pause briefly to say that we're grateful for all.

Sam Bauman: 23:16

That you've done in this space.

Joy McBrien: 23:17

Thank you supply chain nerd. Although I can't tell you a whole lot about traditional supply chain.

Sam Bauman: 23:24

Maybe that's a good thing.

Joy McBrien: 23:25

Yeah, I think, yeah, I think especially being, you know, kind of young and naive when I. Kind of super naive when I started this, just like, okay, let's brainstorm what makes sense to me, you know, and we've had great advisors and mentors along the way who have helped us shape that more. But yeah, I think not being limited by the traditional sense of what some of those business transactions look like, I.

Sam Bauman: 23:54

Mean, that really resonates with, I think our experience starting mellowlark. You know, we all come from really sort of non traditional backgrounds doing the work that we're doing. You know, I have a counseling background and I'm still working with people. And I always say people are people no matter where you go. But part of what I think makes us good at our work and I think probably what allowed you to kind of shift the business model in this space is not bringing all of the standard preconceived expectations to the table and starting with what are my goals, what are my values and what makes sense to get me there. And you're clearly doing that.

Joy McBrien: 24:35

Yeah, yeah, I'm. And I, I've made it harder on myself in a few ways by doing that. But yeah, not in ways that I regret.

Sam Bauman: 24:44

Yeah.

Adam Rondeau: 24:44

So you've said a few times, you've mentioned social enterprise a few times that for our listeners, can you explain how that differs from different forms of business that, you know, a lot of people that listen are people that are maybe thinking about starting businesses or things like that, and social enterprise is one version of that. Could you say that?

Joy McBrien: 25:03

Absolutely. Yeah. I think about social enterprise as ultimately like your mission is being achieved through your regular business activities. And so it's why I decided to start Fair Anita as a for profit public benefit corporation as opposed to a nonprofit, which quite a few fair trade organizations choose to be nonprofit organizations. And no shade there. I'm sure they've got, you know, their reasons, but I know that the more product we're selling, the more fair trade jobs we're able to provide to artisans around the world. And I didn't want my focus distracted. So I've also seen in the nonprofit space, especially like different funders that can then kind of change an organization's priorities or really influence that in a way that, you know, maybe they're not as involved in the day to day or in the community in the same way or whatever that might look like, yeah, I wanted to be able to keep the main thing.

Sam Bauman: 26:10

Yeah, you get to be the loudest or even just the sole voice of what the direction is and what those values are, instead of being beholden to the purse strings to kind of give you that, oh, Jolly's making her appearance.

Joy McBrien: 26:30

She's got to be the protector, dude.

Sam Bauman: 26:35

No worries.

Joy McBrien: 26:39

Yeah, yeah, I think, like, just for me, it's been good to be like, okay, I've got this product sitting in front of me instead of me turning my attention and trying to like write a grant to a funder, which at the end of the day, like, yeah, it's money. But is that actually benefiting our artisan partners? Is that creating economic self sufficiency for women? Like, not particularly the way that our business is set up, you know, and so it's better if I'm spending my time figuring out how do I move more of this product to make sure that we have sustainable jobs for the women that we work with that we have commitments to.

Sam Bauman: 27:15

Are there any moments that stand out to you as being particularly challenging? Like the worst time you've had in your 10 years of running this business? Such a dangerous question.

Joy McBrien: 27:31

Yeah, I mean, thing one, cash flow, just period. You know, I came at this with a women's rights mindset and like, I started my first jewelry business when I was 15. So it was a skill set that I was like, okay, I can bring this to the supply chain. Like, we can collaborate. Let's see what happens. Yeah, that's just been a challenge. Just learning more about that. But there's been a lot of pretty big challenges, I think, especially just given the populations that we partner with and are proud to partner with. COVID of course, was super dramatic for us. It went from like one of the most beautiful moments that we've had as an organization. I was actually leading a trip of 10 customers from here and then like artisan learning tour in Chimbote, Peru. And we just had the most amazing week, like cross cultural learning and celebrating international Women's Day and having some of our wholesale partners, like retailers, be able to actually see how products are made and connect the different people. And dance parties. That's a theme. Yeah. And it was just so perfect. And then, yeah, most of the, most of our people went home, flew back to the States. And it's a longer story, but the short part of it is I got stuck in Chimbote, Peru for the first six weeks of the pandemic. And so I saw the effects on it from a small window in one of the largest, poorest cities in the world and saw what happens when entire economies just are halted and how that affects especially the most marginalized communities. And it was really hard because we, I mean, we work with all these women that we care so deeply about, and I'm like, we gotta make sure everybody's good. You know, we gotta. We gotta make sure everybody can survive this. And yeah, luckily, that's part of where collaborations again came in handy. The women that we work with in Cambodia, they had been making and selling face masks for a while. They knew what they were doing. They had asked me about a month prior if I wanted to sell them, and I was like, nah, like, that's. That ain't. That ain't my thing. Thank you, though. That's so kind. And then, yeah, you know, stuff hits the fan here and I'm like, okay, yeah, could I. Could we actually do that? And it was cool because we also, were able to get to market a lot sooner than most US businesses with our face masks because they had already figured it out. And I know to trust their genius, you know, like, it didn't have to go through a lot of red tape and design process and whatnot here. And so ultimately, yeah, we sold so many face masks, and that's what kept us alive through Covid is like, people would buy a pack of those and a pair of fun earrings for their zoom calls. And then we decided that were going to donate 100% of the proceeds from mask sales to our artisan communities. And then the different groups, oh my gosh, it was so amazing. Everyone, like, it was no strings attached, money for the women. And like, how do you want to show up in your community? And like, some of them literally transformed workshops into like, Covid recovery facilities. Some would put together, like, little baskets of rice and beans and oil and whatever and deliver it to different communities. It was just really incredible to see, I mean, the change making power of these women. And that's why we do this, you know, and ultimately, my favorite is it my favorite a statistic that makes our business work. It's from the UN and it's that for every dollar a woman makes, between 80 and 90 cents are reinvested back into our community, as opposed to 30 to 40 cents by men. And that's a global statistic. And ultimately we're just leaning into that empathetic superpower that our artisan partners have and just really relying on that. And we're seeing it Happen, you know. Yeah, of course they're taking care of themselves and their children, but then they're also, they're looking out for the neighbors and for all the school kids and, you know, making good things happen. It was, yeah, really exceptional to see. But there you go. I go from challenge to.

Sam Bauman: 32:54

Well, you almost sort of preempted my question, which was going to be, you know, how do you keep yourself motivated through all this? And I have to believe part of it is seeing this beautiful opportunity that arose out of such a challenging situation.

Adam Rondeau: 33:09

Yeah, yeah. And seeing that, I don't know, idea sort of come become more like, apparent. Right. So like people feeling cared for, caring for other people. Right. The chain of that and like the chain reaction of that. I mean, you go a long way to make sure that the people that you're working with feel cared for. And instead of just being like, you know, sweet, this is mine, my life's better. They're like, okay, now I can take this and give some of it out to more people. I mean, what a beautiful world. Worked that way, how things would be different.

Joy McBrien: 33:51

And we've seen it time and time and time again.

Sam Bauman: 33:54

Which is.

Adam Rondeau: 33:54

We have a proof of concept.

Joy McBrien: 33:56

Exactly.

Adam Rondeau: 33:57

We need more people leaning into it.

Joy McBrien: 33:59

Yeah. I think especially like, I can get stuck in the. Okay, Joy, you're working within these capitalist systems. You're like selling jewelry. Do people need jewelry?

Sam Bauman: 34:08

No.

Joy McBrien: 34:09

What I'm saying right now is like, you know, this world might be a hot mess, but like, at least you can wear some really great earrings. And it helps when I do know those ripple effects. And I mean, not even ripple effects. The, the way that those change making systems are just baked into the supply chain.

Adam Rondeau: 34:29

Yeah.

Sam Bauman: 34:30

Well, also, you know, you started this business kind of out of your own traumatic experiences and the women that you're working with often have similar backgrounds. And what a beautiful and powerful way to heal some of that trauma. To be able to, you know, completely flip on its head like the communities that these people are a part of and to be able to just radiate that healing out to other people through some of the choices that you've made with your business. I mean, that's really incredible.

Joy McBrien: 35:02

And I think that's where they've, I mean, yeah, they did all that for me, you know, and I mean, that's why we're at. Where we're at is because it's, it's been a community of healing. It's it's been relying on each other and it was that way from the jump, you know, when I was first, like meeting with different women, different, like really cool women's rights organizations around the world and they're like, oh, yeah, you know, it would be great if you could take this stuff back to the US and sell it for us. And I was like, I don't know, like, I don't really do that. Like, but through more of the relationship building and yeah, just seeing like, okay, no, this can be a win, win. And it can be fun and challenging, but we love a good challenge most days.

Sam Bauman: 35:59

As long as there's a dance party at the end.

Joy McBrien: 36:01

Exactly. Oh, gosh. Yeah, real.

Sam Bauman: 36:06

So what advice do you have for people who are running their own business or thinking about running their own business?

Joy McBrien: 36:16

I think it's been really helpful for me to identify what those core values are and then stay super true to them. Like, not waver in that. Like the way our business operates and looks like has. I've been more open minded and flexible with some of those, but like, I know the things that I'm not willing to compromise on. I think that's been really helpful. I think also just like trying seeing what happens, seeing what people resonate with and especially like listening to your target market, you know, and maybe not listening as much to those who aren't in.

Sam Bauman: 36:58

That group and knowing who your target market is. Right. You can't please everybody. You're not for everybody. So stay with the people that you want to.

Joy McBrien: 37:07

Exactly. Yeah. I think about us more as there's all these people with such beautiful intentions and who like, want to live their values out loud but don't always know how to do that. I feel like we can be like an easy, like entry point there. Let's start here and see what happens.

Adam Rondeau: 37:26

You know, I feel like a pattern that we've, that I've noticed in the conversations that we've had while recording episodes of this podcast is that a lot of times, at least the businesses that we feel share our value are usually not starting off by saying, I'm going to start a business, okay, now what do I want that business to be? And that seems to be true for you too. You were, you were like, I see something that I a part of the world that I want to have an impact on and okay, how can I have that impact? And one of the options was creating what you've created and connecting with these communities. And I feel like that is how, you know, when we're Talking to clients. Sometimes we're meeting with them after they've already started their business. And the place we always want to start with them is like saying, okay, what are your values? And it's so interesting how hard that can be sometimes when you're doing that second. And so when you're starting from a place not of I want to start a business, but from a place of here is something that I'm excited about. Oh, it could be a way for me to, you know, put food on my table or whatever.

Sam Bauman: 38:40

Mission first.

Adam Rondeau: 38:41

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It seems to help a lot.

Joy McBrien: 38:44

Yeah. I think at, in business school especially, I was met with a lot of that. Like, you saw a lot of people who were like, I'm here basically to make money. I want to be the next Steve Jobs. I want to whatever. And I was like, cool, you do you. I don't really know what I'm doing yet. I'm figuring out my own mental health is honestly what I was mainly doing. And ultimately I worked with Anita in Peru to build a battered women's shelter. And that was just such a gift to be able to witness. Yeah, the creation of that in that community. And then also seeing the women who moved in there were like, you know, it was just very clear people weren't looking for handouts. They were like, we could use a job. Like, how can I have a steady income to support my kids? And especially in a community where the unemployment rate is over 80%, it's like, well, I don't know. And so that was more what I got stuck on was like, okay, what sort of thing is available here locally that we could. Yeah, what can we dream up to help create that economic opportunity?

Adam Rondeau: 40:08

Yeah, that makes sense.

Sam Bauman: 40:12

So thinking about some of that mission first, values driven business model. What are some other businesses in our community that you know that are doing work like that you'd like to shout out or one in particular that you'd like to shout out? And why?

Joy McBrien: 40:32

Well, you gotta shout out Taylor Evergreen.

Sam Bauman: 40:36

Of course.

Joy McBrien: 40:36

I'm so lucky in that a handful of great people who have worked for me over the last 10 years have then started their own like sustainability minded businesses. So I'm like, ooh, we're almost like a little incubator situation. I'm like, love that. I also think about Global Mamas is a great fair trade organization. Their warehouse is here in Northeast also. They work with women in Ghana making wax printed clothing primarily. But it's absolutely beautiful. And their ethics, like through and through they're really doing it. I feel the same way about vetiera Fair Trade is they are doing more like beeswax stuff from Haiti. Yeah. Again, their ethics are just, you know, there aren't all that many that I'm like, gold star. Here's a stamp of approval. I'm like, no, yeah, they're doing it right. They're doing it right. But yeah, that's awesome. I could name a lot more. Let's be real.

Adam Rondeau: 41:43

It feels like one of the hardest questions always when we get to the end, people are like, oh, I have to pick just one. Yeah. And there's, you know, there's a lot of different ways that businesses can feel worth spotlighting in this space. And so I'm grateful for the hearing. Just, you know, the few that you mentioned that have more of that gold stamp in the space that really matters to Fair Anita.

Sam Bauman: 42:05

So I'm excited to check them out. Thank you so much for having me, having us here today and for such a lovely conversation and just for sharing yourself with us.

Joy McBrien: 42:15

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that you take it like beyond the traditional business stuff too, and it feels more of a human centered conversation.

Sam Bauman: 42:23

I think that's the most interesting.

Adam Rondeau: 42:26

Yeah, that's what matters to us.

Sam Bauman: 42:28

Yeah. Love it. That was Joy McBrien of Fair Anita. Fair Anita is located in the Thorpe building in northeast Minneapolis and can be found at thousands of stores around the world and at local pop up events. You can also find them online@farranita.com that's F A I R A N I T A or on Instagram. Fair Anita. Joy reimagines supply chains as communities instead of transactions, which honestly sounds way better than whatever they teach in traditional business school. If you're a business owner and you're looking for support from people who think exploit your workers for maximum profit is a terrible business strategy, Mellowlark might be your people. Check us out@mellowlark.com and send us a message if you want to chat. Thank you so much for listening. Make sure to follow our podcast. Give us a review on your favorite podcast app and check us out on Instagram mellowlark Lark to get updates of new episodes. See you next week. Sa.